Lightoller and collapsible A

[Jim Currie]

School teacher Lawrence Beesley saw Murdoch go "across the ship to the port side” after seeing No. 13 lowered to A deck. Steward Frederick Crowe and passenger Charlotte Collyer said independently that they saw Murdoch around lifeboat No. 14 (which is on the port side). And Beesley saw him return to the starboard side of the ship, see No. 15 still on A deck, and angrily order it lowered.


Facts and truth are the highest qualifier. Lightoller was given the job of loading and lowering lifeboat No. 4. Not only did he not get the boat into the sea. Not only did he not load a single passenger into the boat. But Capt. Smith ordered him to stop doing whatever he thought he was doing and to get to another boat and get on with it. When the boss tells you to stop dicking around, you have botched the job at hand.

I suggest you check them again then, George

Lightoller asked the Chief Officer if he should lower and fill the boats, he was told "No". he therefore went above the C/O's head and got confirmation from the captain.
Lightoller could not wait until the stewards had been ordered to lower the A deck windows so he moved to 6 then 8 and loaded and launched these successfully. Then he went back and completed loading No.4
However, if you are going by the evidence of QM Perkis who left in boat 4.. i.e.
"No, sir; there was nobody. The boat was lowered. I lowered No. 4 into the water, and left that boat, and walked aft; and I came back, and a man that was in the boat, one of the seamen that was in the boat at the time, sung out to me, "We need another hand down here." So I slid down the life line there from the davit into the boat."
you might think that Perkis was a sole hero. Unfortunately for him, there was an observant passenger in that boat who described the embarkation from start to finish in great detail. Here is the relevant extract:
"Again, we were ordered down to A deck, which was partly enclosed. We saw people getting into boats, but waited our turn. There was a rough sort of steps constructed to get up to the window. My boy, Jack, was with me. An officer at the window said, "That boy can't go." My husband stepped forward and said, "Of course, that boy goes with his mother; he is only 13." So they let him pass. They also said, "No more boys." I turned and kissed my husband, and as we left he and the other men I knew - Mr. Thayer, Mr. Widener, and others - were all standing there together very quietly. The decks were lighted, and as you went through the window it was as if you stepped out into the dark. We were flung into the boats. There were two men - an officer inside and a sailor outside - to help us........Then they called out, "How many seamen have you," and they answered one. "That is not enough," said the officer, "I will send you another," and he sent a sailor down the rope. In a few minutes after several other men not sailors came down the ropes over the davits and dropped into our boat.
EMILY BOSIE RYERSON."

In simple terms. we are being told that "boats" were being loaded from A deck on the port side. That special embarkation steps were use to allow people to negotiate the bulwark into which the windows had been recessed. That the recessing of the windows had probably started at the stern of boat 8 and the stewards had been working forward doing so. That was when Lightoller had the first boat ready. There were at least 20 such windows to be manually wound down (possibly by no more that 2 available handles) before the ones below No.4 were done. It was a very cold night to put passengers on exposed decks, therefore the order to wind down the windows would not have been given before all the boats were ready to lower to the embarkation decks and the order to load boats was given. That order was not given when Lightoller was ready to load No.4. Do you see what I mean?

 

[George Jacub]

I suggest you check them again then, George

The facts haven't changed. In the time it took Murdoch to load and lower lifeboat No. 7 Lightoller failed to load a single passenger into No,. 4
In fact, he was taking even more time as he waited for someone to open the windows on A deck. With time the essence, Capt.Smith ordered him to abandon his efforts at No. 4 and move on to another lifeboat.
Perhaps you prefer the verb 'bungled' to describe his initial attempt at loading a lifeboat. Bungled, v.t. to spoil by clumsy work.

 

[Jim Currie]

The facts haven't changed. In the time it took Murdoch to load and lower lifeboat No. 7 Lightoller failed to load a single passenger into No,. 4
In fact, he was taking even more time as he waited for someone to open the windows on A deck. With time the essence, Capt.Smith ordered him to abandon his efforts at No. 4 and move on to another lifeboat.
Perhaps you prefer the verb 'bungled' to describe his initial attempt at loading a lifeboat. Bungled, v.t. to spoil by clumsy work.

Absolute nonsense, George. Here it is again in the simplest of forms.

1. Lightoller prepares boat 4 the first forward boat on the P. side
2. The crew are preparing all the other boats on the P. and S. sides.
3. The boats are ready to swing out and lower to the embarkation positions on A deck.
4. The boats are swung out but not lowered, No one is giving orders so Lightoller goes and gets the order to swing out lower and load.
5. When the order to lower and load was given the order to open A deck windows on both sides was also given -not before then.
6. Lightholler did not hang about No. 4 There was no point in doing so, but went and attended to the aft boats.
7. When he had finished with the aft boats Lightoller returned and completed his original intention of loading and launching No.4.
8. When No. 4 was clear, Lightoller and the remaining officers, Wilde, Murdoch and Moody gave their attention to the collapsibles. The Captain simply observed.
It's not rocket science, George. However, if you believe what you say about Lightoller, keep it to yourself. That is, unless you can back up your accusations with firm evidence,
Have a nice day.

 

[George Jacub]

It's not rocket science, George.

Lightoller failed to load a single passenger in the time it took another officer to load a lifeboat and get it safely off the ship. The Captain himself had to tell him to stop wasting time and get to another boat. That's why "Lightholler did not hang about No. 4" It wasn't his decision.

 

[Jim Currie]

Lightoller failed to load a single passenger in the time it took another officer to load a lifeboat and get it safely off the ship. The Captain himself had to tell him to stop wasting time and get to another boat. That's why "Lightholler did not hang about No. 4" It wasn't his decision.

George, who writes your script.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Basically, Lightoller made a major error of judgement in deciding to lower Lifeboat#4 to A-deck and load passengers through the windows. Whether he simply forgot that unlike on the Olympic that area was enclosed on the Titanic with locked windows (as is often surmised by authors) or simply ignored the fact is another issue. But the fact remains that it wasted a lot of time and made the passengers move back and forth between decks. Just because Lightoller was seen in the vicinity of other boats does not alter the fact that he messed-up with Lifeboat #4. Expounding patronizing nonsense and trying to cover that up with unrelated experience does not change what happened.

As for providing "evidence", we are all singing from the same hymn book whether we like it or not. None of us were around in 1912 and so any conjecture is based on survivor statements, testimonies during inquiries and to some extent what was found on the wreck. It is just a question of who one chooses to believe or disbelieve and that's where differences in opinion occur. If someone chooses to accept QM Olliver rather than Fourth officer Boxhall as far as conflicting statements are concerned, it is their right to do so. Just because a man is an Officer, it does not make him a paragon of truth and virtue; by the same token, the word of a QM or Able Seaman cannot be disregarded simply because of their rank. If anything, the way things panned out with the Titanic aftermath, surviving officers probably had a greater need to cover-up for themselves rather than ordinary seamen.

A lot of passengers died that night and even many of those who survived lost loved ones. Since the Titanic disaster cannot be labelled as 'unavoidable' the crew and the company collectively have to accept responsibility to a large extent. If something equivalent happens today, the public reaction and the eventual outcome would be entirely different. Considering everything, White Star and the surviving officers got off rather lightly back then. And people like US - I mean those without nautical experience but following-up on the disaster are in a sense like those passengers and so have the right to ask questions and not be browbeaten by self-styled know-alls.