Paul Lee

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Aug 11, 2003
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Hi all,
Have any of Lord Mersye's private papers relating to the disaster survived? It doesn't look like any of Senator Smiths have.

Cheers

Paul

 
Aug 10, 2002
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Count me in on wanting to see them. In the 70s Colin Simpson saw them, when he wrote his book on the Lusitania. A couple of years ago when Diana Preston was writing her book on Lusitania, she contacted the present Lord Mersey and he didn't know anything about such papers. I have written Liverpool Maritime Museum asking whether they have them or if they know where they are. I'm waiting for their reply.
Regards,
Charlie Weeks
 
Mar 20, 2000
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Viscountess Mersey said that his papers may be mixed in with his son's. I don't recall where it is now but there is an archive somewhere that has Clive Bigham's papers. Perhaps a search should be made under his name. At the least there should be correspondence between father and son in that collection.

Randy
 

Rob Ottmers

Member
Jul 21, 1997
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The son's papers might have a wealth of value in and of themselves, if he kept personal notes of his own involvement with the inquiry.
 
Aug 10, 2002
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Thank you gentlemen for the suggestions. I'll search there. Like you I suspect there might be some very interesting information there, or at least their personal views on the business.
Rob, did you get the redone scans I sent of the Interrogatives? They should show the full page.
Regards,
Charlie Weeks
 

Paul Lee

Member
Aug 11, 2003
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Juts heard back from the Liverpool Maritime Museum. They don't have Lord Mersey's papers in their collection. Darn.
sad.gif


Cheers

Paul

 
Aug 10, 2002
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I got a similar letter from them yesterday. They suggested I try Marine Safety Center in Southampton. Accordingly I've written Them and will post it to day.
Regards,
Charlie
 
Aug 10, 2002
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Hello:
I have received mail back from various sources. Therefore I can tell you that the Marine Safety Centre in Southampton doesn't have anything on Titanic. National Maritime Museum in Greenwich, I'm awaiting an answer. Bignor Park in Sussex, the home Lord Mersey bought in 1926 only has a copy of the printed report. Merseyside Maritime Museum in Liverpool has some Titanic material, but not much of Mersey's papers. PRO in Kew has some most of which is on the CD they sell.
That's all the news I have for now. I'll update when I know more.
Regards,
Charlie
 
Aug 10, 2002
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A further piece of information. I have just finished " A Picture of Life" by Charles Clive Bigham, Second Viscount Mersey. He served as his father's Secretary during the Titanic Inquiry in London. At any rate he deals with the Titanic Inquiry in two short paragraphs. Only occasionally mentions his father.
Regards,
Charlie Weeks
 
May 3, 2002
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Wellington, New Zealand
Colin Simpson describes Lord Mersey as becoming wise to what is being perpetrated against Cpt. Turner during the Lusitania Inquiry and the way Joseph Marichal was treated.
He would describe it as a "damn dirty business".
Have the papers since come to light and if so what does he have to say about the Californian and Sir Rufus Issacs?
 
Is there anyone who know much about the fact that for the British Enquiry the dices were loaded ? I read the "Tort, Law and Insurance Journal" that the insurance company "Herrington, Bigham and Englar" that was retained by the cargo insurer in 1912 to say whether the White Star Line and Steamship Co were responsible for the lost of Titanic and whether if both they could have legal proceedings against them or not. That insurance company was owed by the nephew of Lord Mersey, Henry Bigham. Moreover, Lord Mersey himself was General Counsel of the White Star Line at that moment... It was like asking to Hitler to be the commander chief officer of the Israël Police!!! And at the time, everybody found it normal to have Lord Mersey as president of the British Enquiry. It's astonishing! So is someone knows about that fact and could have some reading ideas on that matter ? If someone put hand on archives of Lord Mersey, could that person be kind enough to share its findings with me ? I'm translating all the British Enquiry in French and I would like to edit an e-book with analysis and hints to my readers, along with technical explanations (for instance, in Bride's testimony, I had explained how the TSF used to worked; in Fleet's testimony, I explained from a scientifically documentary of the BBC what actually was the strange fog of which he was taking about, etc.) for I'd like it to be very complete. So if anybody feel he or she could help me out, please don't hesitate! Thanks!
 

Mark Baber

Moderator
Member
Jul 4, 2000
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Hello, Lili---

I think you're misreading that article a bit. It says that Herrington, Bigham and Englar (which was a law firm) was hired by the insurers to render an opinion, not that it was an insurance company. And its says that Lord Bigham himself was a "former General Counsel to the White Star Company"---something I've never heard before---not its General Counsel in 1912.

I will leave it to others to weigh in on the quality of Lord Bigham's analysis.
 
While reading the testimony of Lightoller, I noticed that there was a kind of disagreement or to be more exact, a kind of hostility between Lord Mersey and Scanlan, the counsel of Seamen and Firemen's Union, that seems to be prior to the British Inquiry, and I would like to know more about it. Is someone could help me ? (It is obvious near the questions 14343, 14490, but there's some irony in almost every intervention of Lord Bigham during the cross-examination of Lightoller when he spoke to Scanlan).
 

nahaa

Member
Aug 10, 2017
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oh one of the greatest lords in the empire. lovely im fan of him. :)

and our great british empire i dont know how it got lost otherwise there is no good thing like that in entire world. :(
 
Hello,
I would like to know where I can find (books, internet, etc) information about Lord Mersey -- I mean information on which I can rely. The article which is here written by Senan Molony would be great, but knowing about the documentary "TITANIC The Last Evidence", it's an author who arranges the facts as these can serve him rather than presenting even those that do not go in the direction of his theory, which is not at all a scientific behavior. And I can't rely on those. There is not even a bibliography on this article about Lord Mersey !

Is there someone who can give me good reference about John Bigham-Mersey, please ? Thank you

PS: To answer to the first post here, the one of Paul Lee, all the papers (professionals and personals) of Lord Mersey are in the National Archives of London. I wrote there is 1 year ago to ask them. I don't know if that still matters even though 15 years have passed :)
 

Jim Currie

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Apr 16, 2008
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NewtonMearns, Glasgow, Scotland.
Hello,
I would like to know where I can find (books, internet, etc) information about Lord Mersey -- I mean information on which I can rely. The article which is here written by Senan Molony would be great, but knowing about the documentary "TITANIC The Last Evidence", it's an author who arranges the facts as these can serve him rather than presenting even those that do not go in the direction of his theory, which is not at all a scientific behavior. And I can't rely on those. There is not even a bibliography on this article about Lord Mersey !

Is there someone who can give me good reference about John Bigham-Mersey, please ? Thank you

PS: To answer to the first post here, the one of Paul Lee, all the papers (professionals and personals) of Lord Mersey are in the National Archives of London. I wrote there is 1 year ago to ask them. I don't know if that still matters even though 15 years have passed :)
Consult Burke's Peerage.
"
John Charles Bigham, 1st Viscount Mersey was born on 3 August 1840.1 He was the son of John Bigham and Helen East.2 He married Georgina Sarah Rogers, daughter of John Rogers, on 17 August 1871.1 He died on 3 September 1929 at age 89.1
He was admitted to Middle Temple in 1870 entitled to practise as a barrister.1 He was appointed Queen's Counsel (Q.C.) in 1883.1 He held the office of Member of Parliament (M.P.) for Liverpool Exchange between 1895 and 1897.1 He was appointed Knight in 1897.1 He held the office of Justice of the High Court between 1897 and 1909.1 He was a Royal Commissioner of revision of martial law sentences in South Africa in 1902.1 He was president of the Railway and Canal Commission between 1904 and 1907.1 He was appointed Privy Counsellor (P.C.) in 1909.1 He was president of the Probate, Divorce and Admiralty Division, High Court between 1909 and 1910.1 He was created 1st Baron Mersey, of Toxteth, co. Lancaster [U.K.] on 16 March 1910.1 He was president of the Wreck Commission, UK between 1912 and 1914.1 He was created 1st Viscount Mersey, of Toxteth, co. Lancaster [U.K.] on 22 January 1916.2 He has an extensive biographical entry in the Dictionary of National Biography.3
 
Hi to everyone,

I'm writing an article about Lord Mersey and I read the article written by Molony which has been published here in 2005 where its said that " Bigham dined the following year with lord Pirrie, at a function hosted by a guild known as the Shipwrights company". That means obviously that he did know that Guild, is it not ? However, at the first day of the inquiry, when Mr WLMR Pringle made a submission to appear in behalf of this association, he had to explain to Lord Mersey what this association is, and furthermore, the Commissionner seems to have been very rude with him when he tried to argument with him. Knowing that Molony's objectivity seems to be as questionnable as Mersey's -- if you know what I mean -- I would like to know if somebody here know where is the truth : in the BI or in Molony's article ?

And I don't know if it still matter after more than 15 years (2005) but last year I wrote to the British Archives to ask if they have a repository of Mersey's and they said yes, personal and professional and I think that the clerk gave me the reference's number. At the time I was wondering a question to know if there could have been some money income which could not be explained around April 1912, June 1914 as well as May 1915 and April 1916, and my intention was to ask an Historian friend with whom I've studied to go at the archives and bring back some information to me but a "little known" Virus called Covid ;) arrived and screwed my plans up. And by the way, Archives have those of all the MP's and Mersey was one of them, consequently, they have it (I have the impression of writing a syllogism, you know like "All men were mortals ; Socrate was a man ; therefore Socrate is mortal" lol! )

Anyway, if someone want it I could retrieve the email of the Archives and giving the correct reference for Mersey if needed. I could search my own archives -- not as famous as Mersey's but nevertheless useful ! lol! :p

Thanks!
 
Consult Burke's Peerage.
"
John Charles Bigham, 1st Viscount Mersey was born on 3 August 1840.1 He was the son of John Bigham and Helen East.2 He married Georgina Sarah Rogers, daughter of John Rogers, on 17 August 1871.1 He died on 3 September 1929 at age 89.1
He was admitted to Middle Temple in 1870 entitled to practise as a barrister.1 He was appointed Queen's Counsel (Q.C.) in 1883.1 He held the office of Member of Parliament (M.P.) for Liverpool Exchange between 1895 and 1897.1 He was appointed Knight in 1897.1 He held the office of Justice of the High Court between 1897 and 1909.1 He was a Royal Commissioner of revision of martial law sentences in South Africa in 1902.1 He was president of the Railway and Canal Commission between 1904 and 1907.1 He was appointed Privy Counsellor (P.C.) in 1909.1 He was president of the Probate, Divorce and Admiralty Division, High Court between 1909 and 1910.1 He was created 1st Baron Mersey, of Toxteth, co. Lancaster [U.K.] on 16 March 1910.1 He was president of the Wreck Commission, UK between 1912 and 1914.1 He was created 1st Viscount Mersey, of Toxteth, co. Lancaster [U.K.] on 22 January 1916.2 He has an extensive biographical entry in the Dictionary of National Biography.3
Thanks, Jim, and sorry for the late reply : I was paralyzing from the neck and had to have a surgery that longs 10 hours to avoid staying in a wheelchair for the rest of my life. It was so hard, and still is for I have the right hand which is almost paralysed and they don't know if it is the transplant (bones) that would have failed. I will know it this week. Before losing my right hand, I used to type about 80 words / minute, and now it's about 10... So I am so frustrated and hope it won't be forever. Maybe another awful surgery -- surrounded by Covid patients ! :eek:

Anyway, all these words to say thank you :)
 

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