Lusitania and her crew


Hildo Thiel

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Nov 5, 2000
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Hello All,

I like to have some more information about the fate of the bosun's mate William Egan and the bosun's boy Thomas Quinn?

I have read something about a Thomas Quinn that was saved. So I think the bosun's boy Thomas Quinn was saved. Also because the other Thomas Quinn aboard the AB seaman died.

Regards,

Hildo
 
May 3, 2002
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Wellington, New Zealand
Hildo,

That is some list and makes sobering reading especially when one arrives at the boiler room staff. The question is how many men would it take to run a boiler room during a watch?
The answer to this will give you the mortality rate of the first two boiler rooms.

Thanks again

Martin
 

Hildo Thiel

Member
Nov 5, 2000
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It is indeed a sobering list.

I have found some answers on some of the crew members marked with an (?)

This are the changes for the list:

Mr. Joseph Robb (AB) (Died)
Mr. Maurice Betrand (extra 2nd cook) (Died)
Mr. William Dougherty (Fireman) (Died)
Mr. S. Malfiat (Trimmer) (Died)

Mr. Charles Hotchkiss (1st class waiter) (Saved)
Mr. Vernon Livermore (1st class waiter) (Saved)
Mr. Harold E. Rowbotham (1st class waiter) (Saved)
Mr. Frank Toner (Fireman) (Saved)

Regards,

Hildo
 
Dec 13, 1998
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Hildo, there was no S Malfait who died. The person you are referring to was 'Shef Malfait', a trimmer who survived the sinking. There were, by the way 32 surviving first class waiters. I haven't the list right now, but some of them:

Vernon Livermore
Thomas Adamson
John Henderson
Percy Lawson
Frederick Deiner
Frederick Russell
Francis Hagan
David Stanley
Thomas Comerford
Thomas Godley
George Currie
Noel Finucane (who died during WW1)
Alfred Kupfernagl
William Smith
Thomas Pringle
Sydney Le Touzel
Charles Hotchkiss
Charles McDonald
George Rushton
Malcolm Simpson

and others

Best regards,

Peter
 

Hildo Thiel

Member
Nov 5, 2000
511
1
263
Hello Peter,

Thank you for the corrections. About the first class waiters.

I have now the following first class waiters marked as saved:

01 Mr. Thomas Adamson
02 Mr. Thomas Comerford
03 Mr. George Currie
04 Mr. John Darcy
05 Mr. Frederick Deiner
06 Mr. Noel Finucane
07 Mr. Thomas G. Godley
08 Mr. Francis J. Hagan
09 Mr. John Henderson
10 Mr. Charles Hotchkiss
11 Mr. Percy Lawson
12 Mr. Sydney Le Touzel (I believe the head waiter)
13 Mr. Vernon Livermore
14 Mr. Alfred Kupfenagel
15 Mr. Charles McDonald
16 Mr. Thomas Pringle
17 Mr. Harold E. Rowbotham
18 Mr. George Rushton
19 Mr. Frederick Russell
20 Mr. Malcolm Simpson
21 Mr. William Smith
22 Mr. David H. Stanley

The following first class waiter as victim:

01 Mr. John Almond
02 Mr. Gordon Ashcroft
03 Mr. James H. Brown
04 Mr. Richard Conway
05 Mr. John Foster
06 Mr. George Alfred Glover
07 Mr. Frederick William Gorst
08 Mr. James Benedict Heybyrne
09 Mr. George Percival Hilton
10 Mr. James William Holden
11 Mr. Ernest Alexander Kewley
12 Mr. Malcolm John MacFarlane
13 Mr. James Marshall
14 Mr. John Mills
15 Mr. John H.B.H. Moffatt
16 Mr. John Henry Murphy
17 Mr. Isaac Ritson (William)
18 Mr. William Deakin Rylands
19 Mr. Alfred Richard Thorn
20 Mr. Robert Neptune Williams
21 Mr. James Robert Wilson

And of the other first class waiters I have no fate:

01 Mr. Joseph Archer
02 Mr. Thomas G. Baldwin
03 Mr. Edgar Baldwin
04 Mr. E. Bennett Brown
05 Mr. George Fletcher
06 Mr. William Hendry
07 Mr. Richard Lee
08 Mr. Patrick McSane
09 Mr. William F. Neems
10 Mr. John Roache
11 Mr. Harry Stringer
12 Mr. J.E. Van Hoeck

32 first class waiter survived, so ten of the first clas waiter of who I don't know the fate survived and two died.

Of the waiters in second class I have no names of survivors. I have 10 names of victims and 9 names without a fate. Did any of them survive?

Do you have any idea what happend to the second bosun's mate William Egan and the bosun's boy Thomas Quinn?

Regards,

Hildo
 
Apr 24, 2002
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hildo, hope this os of use.
ref Thomas Quinn- i have him listed as dead and aged 17yrs, his birth place as liverpool and his last known address as 2 court, 3 house Liver Street Liverpool
also Harry Stringer- 1st Class waiter dead, age 26 born in liverpool last known address 5 wood street, Linacre Liverpool

hope this is of use

Cliff
 

Hildo Thiel

Member
Nov 5, 2000
511
1
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Hello Cliff,

Thank you for the information, It was usefull.

I have also removed fireman Sterberg, he is the same as fireman Osterberg who survived.

Regards,

Hildo
 
Dec 13, 1998
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Hildo: more surviving first class waiters:

James H Brown
Joseph Archer
T G Baldwin
E Baldwin
George Fletcher
William Hendry
Richard Lee
Patrick McSane
John Roach
Julius Van Hoecke

Harold E Rowbotham was a second class waiter.

Some surviving second class waiters:

William Rose
James Wallace
Alfred Quinn (not a bedroom steward)
Bartholomew Gaul
George Griffith (I believe he was the head waiter)

There were ten surviving second class waiters and ten who were lost. William Egan survived, Thomas James Quinn, bosun's boy, was lost.

Best regards,

Peter
 

Hildo Thiel

Member
Nov 5, 2000
511
1
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Hello Peter,

Thank you for the information. If I put Alfred Quinn and Harold E. Rowbotham, on the list of second class waiters, I have than 21, so that is one to many.

I have the following 10 names as dead:
Mr. Norman Frederick Allen
Mr. William Henry Edgar
Mr. William George Gardner
Mr. Charles Stuart Gilroy
Mr. Fred Lewis
Mr. Cristopher Evans McConkey
Mr. John Barrow Moss
Mr. John Shevland
Mr. Leslie Stanfield
Mr. Harold Williams

Than 6 names of surviving 2nd class waiters:
Mr. Bartholomew Gaul
Mr. George Griffith
Mr. Alfred Quinn
Mr. William Rose
Mr. Harold E. Rowbotham
Mr. James Wallace

Than I have the following names:
Mr. James Clarke
Mr. William Jones
Mr. Henry Matthews
Mr. Frank Sutton
Mr. John Thomas

Four of them are 2nd class waiters and survived, but which one in not an second class waiter.

About the first class waiters is it correct to say that Mr. E. Bennet Browne died and Mr. William F. Neems survived?

And what happend to this four waiters:
Mr. C. Price
Mr. Ernest Toder
Mr. John Varney
Mr. Edward Weight
Of all the others I know the fate.

Of the first class cabin bed steward in have the following names as rescued:
Mr. William Barnes
Mr. Percy Penny
Mr. Charles Rendall
Of the second class cabin I have no names of survivors, did any of them survive?

One last question there was also an AB Seaman aboard called Thomas Quinn, I have him as dead on my list is that correct?

Regards,

Hildo
 
Dec 13, 1998
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Hildo, you might be right about the number of 2nd class waiters, there might have been 21. Clarke, Matthews, Sutton and Thomas survived, Wm Jones did not make it.
Waiters Price and Barney were lost, Edward Weigh survived and Ernest Toder is the same as Robert Edward Foden, who survived (i e, there was only one person by that name, Robert Ernest Foden, the other name was a mistake when printed).
Three 2nd class bedroom stewards survived:
Ernest Hallam, Frank Kidd and James Anderson.

Best regards,

Peter

P S Besides 1st, 2nd and 3rd class waiters, there was a group of approximately 25 'waiters'. Where on the ship did they work? In any class??? Or were they just not properly trained and subsequently received less pay? Since there were so few 2nd class waiters to serve 601 passengers, it would seem likely that quite a few of these so-called waiters worked in 2nd class. This is, however, just a theory. Does anybody know?
 

Hildo Thiel

Member
Nov 5, 2000
511
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Hello Peter,

Thank you for the information. Was there among the waiters an Robert E. Foderic, or was he the sameone as Robert E. Foder alias Toder.

I have 26 waiters on my list:

Survivors: Robert E. Foden, Matthew Freeman, Charles Gouder, Robert Grainger, John F. Leach, Robert Niemann, Jacob Osterman, Gerald Shalvey and Edward Weight.

Dead: Duncan Campbell Bain, A. Banser, John Barney, Francis Barrows, John Henry Blend, H.J. Dingly, G. Gowan, Thomas Hannah, George Edward Harries, William Henry Kinshott, John Neil Leach, Henry MacKenzie, Kenneth Mackenzie, John MacPherson, Benjamin Potter, C. Price and David March Spendley.

I am looking for the fates of the following crew members:

Mr. Thomas Owen, Linenkeeper
Mr. William Mitchell, Linenkeeper
Mr. E. Bennet Browne, first waiter
Mr. William F. Neems, first waiter
Mr. William Newport, smokeroom steward
Mr. Samuel Caldicott, assistant smokeroom steward
Mr. Samuel J. Penkerman, pantry steward
Mr. William Wilmer, pantry steward
Mr. Richard Danson, Charles Davies, Edward Hughes, Thomas Prowse and George Thorley, all assistant pantry stewards.
Mr. Edward Bond, 1st class cabin bed steward
Mr. George J. Charlton, 1st class cabin bed steward
Mr. James Collins, 1st class cabin bed steward
Mr. William S. Fletcher, 1st class cabin bed steward
Mr. James Grant, 1st class cabin bed steward
Mr. Robert Morse, 1st class cabin bed steward
Mr. John Perry, 1st class cabin bed steward
Mr. Vincent Settle, 1st class cabin bed steward
Mr. William H. Williams, 1st class cabin bed steward
Mr. Walter Wood, 1st class cabin steward
Mr. Alfred Wood, 1st class cabin steward
Mr. Jack McIver, Mr. John Ferris and Mr. James W. Glancy, all assistant stewards.
Mr. Henry Ross, barkeeper
Mr. Ambrose Iverson, Mr. George Knill, Mr. Samuel Scantlebury, all scullerymen
Mr. Charles Jones, 2nd butcher
Mr. Harold Nixon, storekeeper
Mr. Henry McKenzie, Mr. Charles Aindow, Mr. John Mudge, all Watchmen


Thats all for the moment.

Regards,

Hildo
 

Hildo Thiel

Member
Nov 5, 2000
511
1
263
Hello All,

I have just finished yesterday my list on the Lusitania passengers. Also I have the names of the crew members. The List contains all the names of the 291 First Class Passengers, 601 Second Class Passengers and 373 Third Class Passengers. Of the passengers I know all the fates, I am still looking for the fates of some of the crew members: That part of the confedential report is not in my possesion, so who can help me?

So what happend to:

Navigation:

Seaman Peter McNally

AB Seamen:
John Anderson
James Battle
Joseph Bowden
Neil Clyde
Edward Fayle
John Hannan
E.J. Heighway
J. Heyes
C.T. Knight
Thomas Quinn
Charles A. Roberts
T. Robins
James Sikking
James Todd

Service:

Smokeroom Stewards:
William Newport
Samuel Caldicott

Pantry Stewards:
Samuel J. Penkerman
William Wilmer

Waiter Robert Foderic

Assistant Pantry Stewards:
Richard Danson
Charles Davies
Edward Hughes
Thomas Prowse
George Thornley

1st class cabin bed stewards:
Edward Bond
James Collins
William S. Fletcher
James Grant
Robert Morse
William H. Williams
Walter Wood
Alfred Wood

Assistant Stewards:
Jack McIver
John Ferris
James W. Glancy

Barkeeper Henry Ross

Cooks:
Henry Beckett
Joseph Duncan
Oscar Greiner
David McClelland
Samuel Nussbaum
John Ottino
Richard Pratt
James Redmond
W. Saultry
William Sephton

Bakers:
Fred Cooper
James Francom
A. Gytenbuch

Scullerymen:
Ambrose Iverson
George Knill
Samuel Scantlebury

Boots:
George Maylor
William Anderson

Butcher Charles Jones

Watchmen:
Henry McKenzie
Charles Aindow
John Mudge

Storekeeper Harold Nixon

Engineering:

Engineer: R.G. Wylie

Electric Attendants:
John Fitzgerald
John Sharkey

Steering Engineer J.F. Paton

Leading Firemen
David Evans
George Grundy
Patrick Needham

Trimmers:
George Batt
John Brennan
W. Colwell
J. Davies
B. Dowgey
John Dyer
B. Goodman
Michael Jones
John Kennedy
Jonh Lemon
Joseph Lewis
John Manning
Thomas McGinty
Donald McGugan
Walter McGugan
B. McGuiness
F. McKenna
Peter McNulty
John McStay
John Needham
Bernard O'Neill
Thomas Palmer
Edward Powell
P. Rafferty
Thomas Ruddan
T. Stafford
O. Slavin
Chris Taylor
John W. Thompson
A. Trainer
George Vose
Martin Welsh

Firemen:
Joseph Burns
Bernard Carribine
Joseph Casey
Andrew Cross
Stephen Crumby
William Culshaw
William Donovan
John Donnelly
Thomas Edwards
John Farrell
John Farrell
John Forest
Charles Gunther
George Hutchinson
P. Keogh
F. Lewis
Peter Manning
Michael McAdam
Thomas McAleavoy
Joseph McGowan
Patrick McKenna
Patrick Mahon
P. McMahon
Patrick Moran
James Murphy
Dan Murphy
C. Mylaska
J. Newby
A.W. Norman
Bernard Norton
Patrick O'Brien
James O'Neill
Michael O'Neill
John Orange
J. Osborne
Michael Payne
Daniel Power
Patrick Reynolds
Edward Rice
William Robinson
E.W. Ross
L. Rossiter
Charles Scanell
C. Scott
William Sinsott
J. Stanley
G. Whitmore
Joseph Woods

Source: Confendential Report

Regards,

Hildo
 

Jim Kalafus

Member
Dec 3, 2000
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Hildo- I will send you the list of recovered bodies from the report, which might help with a few of these names, and as soon as we get the rest of the microfilm copied I'll send you the crew death list at your home address.
 
Dec 13, 1998
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Hildo, nearly all of those you have listed were survivors. Gijtenbeek (listed Gytenbuch) did not make it, neither did fireman Myiebeck (listed Mylaska); that last name is probably incorrectly spelt, I haven't got the list with me right now.
Butcher Charles Jones was in fact Cann Cooper Lann, who didn't make it.

Peter
 

Hildo Thiel

Member
Nov 5, 2000
511
1
263
Hello Peter,

Thank you for the information.

I had a look at the figures of the fates.

Of the 37 crew members died in the navigation department or deck department, I have the names of 35, so two still missing.

From the stewards department. Of 161 victims, I have 152 with a name on it.

For Engineering of the 201 victims, I have 179 with a name.

Also have now Storekeeper Harold Nixon as saved and watchman Charles Aindow as a victim.

Regards,

Hildo
 

Hildo Thiel

Member
Nov 5, 2000
511
1
263
Hello,

I have here the list of AB seaman of who I know for sure that they survived. If there are any names missing, please correct me?

Mr. G. Clinton
Mr. C. Gunn
Mr. Frank Henneasey
Mr. James Hume
Mr. Hugh Robert Johnston
Mr. H. Lockhett
Mr. Leslie N. Morton
Mr. John Clifford Morton
Mr. F.H. O.Neill
Mr. N.T.J. Owen
Mr. Joseph Parry
Mr. John Roper
Mr. Leo Henry Thompson

And the Seamen
Daniel Moore
T. O'Mahoney

And of the 1st class Cabin Stewards I have the following survivors for sure:

Mr. William Barnes
Mr. Percy Penny
Mr. Charles Rendall

And of the 21 cooks I have George Wynne as the only one who survived? I have no survivors among the Bakers, the Boots, the pantrymen, the assistant pantrymen and the scullerymen and the only survivor among the watchmen I have is Charles Knight, who died I believe some days later in Liverpool.

Regards,

Hildo
 
Dec 13, 1998
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Hildo: John Mudge and Henry McKenzie were the two other surviving nightwatchmen.
Among the survivors from the kitchen department:

Frederick Cooper
John Kennedy (originally listed as lost, but he survived)
William Sephton
David McClelland
George Wynne
George Knill
Samuel Scantlebury
Richard Pratt
John Ottin
Joseph Duncan
Oscar Greiner

There were 16 survivors from the kitchen department, if memory serves me right

Peter
James Francom
James Redmond
 

Hildo Thiel

Member
Nov 5, 2000
511
1
263
Hello Peter,

Thank you for the information. I assume that James Francom and James Redmond also survived the disaster.

So the only ones of the kitchen staff I don't know if they survived are:
Mr. Henry Beckett (?) (passenger cook)
Mr. Samuel Nussbaum (?) (soup cook)
Mr. W. Saultry (?) (ship’s cook)
Mr. Ambrose Iverson (Sculleryman)

Do you know what happend to barkeeper Henry Ross?

Did any of the smokeroom stewards or Pantry stewards survive the disaster?

The only two first class waiters of who I have no fate are:
Mr. E. Bennett Browne (I think he died, but I am not sure)
Mr. William F. Neems

And also I am not sure if Mr. Robert Foden and Robert Foderic are the same person.

Regards,

Hildo
 
Dec 13, 1998
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Hildo, James Redmond and James Francom survived alright, as did Henry Beckett. Nussbaum and William Saltry did not survive. Ambrose Iverson did not make it. He was listed as 'Iverson' but his name was in fact something else (I can't remember exactly what right now, I am not at home)
Barkeeper Henry (or Thomas) Ross was lost.
Edward Bennett Browne and William Francis Neems were lost.
Robert Ernest Foden/Robert Foderic: one person, a survivor.

Best regards,

Peter
 
S

Sharon L Crowley

Guest
Am interested in knowing if possible where the following crew members were from...

1st waiter .

Mr. James William Holden (D)

Mr. John Almond (D)

1st class cabin bed steward

Mr. David Critchley (D)

Is there a way to find this info out please?

thank you
SLC
 

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