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Manuel Uruchurtu

Discussion in 'Passenger Research' started by mike disch, Mar 25, 2003.

  1. mike disch

    mike disch Guest

    Besides the bio info already on this site, I'm seeking any info on Mr. Uruchurtu - 1st Class Mexican passenger who gave up his lifeboat seat and perished.
    He will soon be represented by another "Historical Performer" here at the L.A. Titanica exhibit and, as always, we wish to be as authentic as possible.
    Thanks to all the mavens.
     
  2. gabino noval

    gabino noval Member

    He was a mexican politician, very close friend of Ramon Corral, who was vicepresident of Mexico, during a period of the Porfirio Diaz regime, the dictatorship that lasted more than 30 years, exiled in Paris in 1910. Manuel Uruchurtu went to France to visit Ramon Corral and probably Diaz himself, boarded the Titanic on Cherbourg because a relative of Ramon Corral also wanted to return to Mexico and traded Uruchurt´'s ticket of a boat called "France" or "Paris" for one of the Titanic, he was on that time, an active member of the mexican congress, a deputy. He gave up the seat that corresponded to him as a traveller on an official politic visit, besides of being a first class passenger, he gave it up to a woman named Elizabeth Nye, a second class passenger, who pleased a seat and said her husband and son were waiting for her in New York, so Manuel let her go on his place with the only condition that she went to Mexico to tell his wife what had happened with him. She went to Veracruz, Mexico until 1924, 12 years later and narrated Manuel's wife the story with tears on her face.
    It was discovered that Elizabet Nye did not have a husband nor a son when the Titanic made it's only journey in which a mexican deputy perished, while a liar took his place.
     
  3. MANUEL URUCHURTU RAMIREZ was my grand uncle (younger brother of my grand father Gustavo) and I have study his life and the Titanic for the last 30 years

    I wish to share some details of his life

    * Born in Hermosillo, Sonora, Mexico on June 27, 1872

    * He was the ninth son (of ten) of MATEO URUCHURTU DIAS and MERCEDES RAMIREZ ESTRELLA

    * Married to GERTRUDIS CARAZA Y LANDERO and the had seven kids: two daughters AMPARO and DOLORES and five boys MANUEL, EDUARDO, ARMANDO, LEON and JOSELIN

    * He was a Military, Civil and International lawyer, wrote various books, he had the rank of Colonel (due to his practice in Military Law)

    * As a politician he ran and won four times as member of the Congress (in Mexico)

    * On April 14, 1912 he was on board of boat number ELEVEN due to the fact that he was register as a lawyer, member of the Mexican Congress and Diplomat

    * Mrs ELIZABETH RAMELL NYE, Second Class passenger tried to get on board the boat but was not allowed

    * MANUEL URUCHURTU STEP DOWN FROM THE BOAT AND LEFT HIS PLACE TO MRS RAMELL NYE

    *This was totally confirmed by her and is register in the declaration to the Commission of the US Congress of some of the witness of the CHIVALRY ACT

    [Moderator's note: This message, originally a separate thread, has been moved to this pre-existing thread discussing the same passenger. MAB]
     
  4. Mike Poirier

    Mike Poirier Member

    He took the Lusitania to England in March 1912
     
  5. Dear Gabino

    Hoping that you still review this magnificent history site, I just want to make some observations about Mrs Ramell Nye

    a)Born on May 27, 1882 in Folkestone, Kent, England

    b)She got MARRIED, December 26, 1904 with EDWARD ERNEST NYE

    c)The had a SON, Maisie, who died in 1906 at the age of nine months

    d)Between 1911 to 1912 she travel to England to visit her parents

    e)In April, 1912, she was going to go back to the US on the Philadelphia steam ship but she was transferred to the Titanic due to the coal strike in Britain

    f)Edward Ernest Nye PASSED AWAY ON MAY 22, 1911 so SHE WAS A WIDOW by the moment of the Titanic tragedy

    g)Some time later, once she went to live in New York, she got married with George Darby (Salvation Army Colonel) and they had only one son, George, born on March 30, 1915

    h)She died on November 22, 1963 at Asbury Park, New Jersey

    Although she might have said that "her husband and son" were waiting her, that DOSE NOT make her a lying person

    Desperation can make you say many things and even more when your life is at risk
     
  6. Mark Baber

    Mark Baber Moderator

    Hello, Alejandro---

    Please note that gambino noval's message is almost three years old and he has not visited this board since then. He's not likely to see or respond to your message.
     
  7. Please let me tell you some brief things about myself regarding MANUEL R URUCHURTU

    As I said in my previous post (April 20, 2011) Manuel was a younger brother of my grand father (Gustavo) for which it makes a DIRECT FAMILY LINK as my grand uncle

    I being researching and studying his life and the Titanic for the last 30 years

    I am also member of the Titanic Historical Society at Southamton, England

    I have a large documentation about Manuel's life

    In May of 2001, I published an essay (in spanish and translated to english when it was up loaded to the internet) titled "CABALLEROSIDAD, Manuel R Uruchurtu, un mexicano a bordo del Titanic" ("CHIVALRY, Manuel R Uruchurtu, a mexican on board the Titanic")

    This essay refers various facts about the life of Manuel and, specially, his last moments at the Titanic as they were told by Mrs Ramell Nye and some other witness declarations to the US and British Commissions that investigated the Titanic sinking

    Although this essay had some original errors or mistakes, they are all going to be clear in the book that I am writing now and that is pretended to be presented on APRIL 2012 for the 100 Anniversary of the Titanic sinking and Manuel's death

    Is important to take note that my essay HAS BEING TAKEN AS REFERENCE DOCUMENT BY THIS Encyclopedia Titanica and various other authors and investigators on the matter

    I will be posting more information and observation comments about Manuel R Uruchurtu
     
  8. Dear Mark

    I notice that fact and that is why I began using the word "hoping"

    The comment (observation) IS NOT ONLY FOR HIM IS FOR ALL OUR MEMBERS AND FRIENDS

    By the way, I have various documents and photos that I would like to share

    I being trying to up load them but I must be doing some thing wrong because I have not being able to post them

    I have read the instructions to do it but, since english is NOT my native language, some words are confuse to me

    Is there a form that I could get some instructions about it in spanish?

    Best Regards
     
  9. Mark Baber

    Mark Baber Moderator

    Not that I know of, Alejandro.
     
  10. Thank you Mark

    It would be OK if I use Google translator?
     
  11. Mark Baber

    Mark Baber Moderator

    Fine by me, but my experience with online translators is that they produce unintelligible results at times.
     
  12. You are right Mark and specially when technical words are use

    I will ask for the help of a good friend that is an expert with computers

    Best Regards
     
  13. Dear Michael (Poirier) and all our distinguished members

    Thank so much for the information regarding Manuel R Uruchurtu and the Lusitania

    To complete your information I let you know, and also to all our members, that according to my research and the information found at the Civil Registration Department (it's the Mexico City Government Office that registers all birth, death, marriage, divorce, etc, certificates since 1857), in his DEATH CERTIFICATE is the following:

    "HE DEPART FROM MEXICO TO EUROPE ON FEBRUARY 20, 1912"

    This was declare by the widow (Gertrudis Caraza Vda de Uruchurtu), through her lawyer Mr EMETERIO DE LA GARZA, to the SIXTH CIVILIAN JUDGE on JUNE 27, 1912

    This trial, known in Mexico as VOLUNTARY JURISDICTIONAL TRIAL, was started and finish in order that the widow could CLAIM her Succession Rights, and also that she could collect the final payment given by the Mexican Congress, as well for other legal claims

    All this information, IN SPANISH, can be seen at the following link:

    http://www.rcivil.df.gob.mx/museo_4.html

    There you will find the photos of the original DEATH CERTIFICATE, as well as some of the documents use to prove that he was on board the Titanic

    Among those documents are three very interesting ones: TWO LETTERS (one to his wife and another to his brother in law) on which he says that HE IS GOING BACK HOME ON THE TITANIC and his LAST TELEGRAPH MESSAGE (sent from Cherbourgh to his brother Remigio Uruchurtu) that reads "EMBARCANDOME" (going on board)

    Best regards to all;
     
  14. Dear Friends

    It seams that there is a problem to make the DIRECT LINK given, at least from the Encyclopidia forum

    I know there is NO problem with the link because I look at it before posting the link, so there are some alternative solutions

    a)Copy the link and view it from a "new open page"

    b)I will try to post, through the CONTRIBUTE section, the Word document on which I have the information given. If I have any problem doing it I will let you know

    Best Regards;
     
  15. I sent an email to the editor of the Encyclopidia but I do not know if he got it

    I put copy to my emails and NEVER GOT THEM

    How could I know if he got it?
     
  16. Mark Baber

    Mark Baber Moderator

    I've emailed Phil Hind for you, Alejandro, letting him know you're trying to reach him.
     
  17. Thank you so much

    Best Regards;
     
  18. In the massage of April 22, 2011, I posted a link

    I am glad to inform you that the DIRECT LINK posted is now WORKING PERFECT (I just got in to the museum page)

    Hope you visit it, all though is in spanish, all the documents shown are interesting and historically important

    They are photographs of the Death Certificate of Manuel R Uruchurtu and of various letters between different Government Authorities, and of two of his personal letters and of the LAST TELEGRAPH sent by him from Cherburg, France when he was boarding the Titanic

    Best Regards;
     
  19. JUST TO SAY HELLO TO ALL OF YOU AND INFORM THAT I AM HAVING A GREAT ADVANCE ON MY BOOK ABOUT THE LIFE OF MANUEL R URUCHURTU

    PLANS ARE TO PRESENT IT ON APRIL 2012

    I WILL KEEP YOU UPDATED

    BEST REGARDS
     
  20. Alejandro, could you do us a wee favour and avoid posting in ALL CAPS??? It's considered to be SHOUTING on the 'net and doesn't go over very well.

    Hope your book does well!