This is getting really silly now.
I see that Mr Lopez has made no reply to the valid questions raised by Bob Godfrey in Post 43. Instead he has transferred his commenting onto a facebook page and one of his comments there has upset me and compelled me to write this
OPEN LETTER TO MR JAVIER LOPEZ SEVILLA
Thank you for your interesting contribution towards this debate which has helped the total number of times the site has been visited now to over 5,000. You and I sit at different sides of the fence when it comes to the true/untrue question but your Post 41 does contain one statement with which you and I are in complete agreement - “With all those evidences Mr Garate has always been the same in his speeches to affirm such story” Yes I agree with that much, but you have chosen to ignore the fact that each one of his evidences was discredited during the enquiries made by The Reforma newspaper. Mr Garate was even claiming to be a member of a non-existent Titanic Society!
I ask you to look at just three of his evidences:-
A. Mr Garate has been claiming for many years that Edith (Rosenbaum) Russell made a statement to the US Inquiry in which she states that she witnessed the heroic act of Manuel Uruchurtu in Lifeboat 11. A simple search on the Inquiry website will confirm The Reforma`s finding that Miss Russell was not called to give evidence at either the American or British Enquiry. Yet Mr Garate continues to assert that he, and other relatives and Titanic researchers have seen the document in question. Doesn`t it strike you as strange that faced with the only document he alleges can prove his case neither Mr Garate, nor any of the others he refers to, made a copy of the document or a note of the chapter and verse where it can be found?
Lets turn to Edith Russell herself. She was a prolific speaker/writer about the Titanic for the rest of her long life (She died in 1975 at the age of 98 Quote: “I`ve written about that night until I am cock-eyed”) I see you enjoy researching so here is a project for you - here is a list of 8 articles by and interviews with Edith (there are many more as well) Since, according to Mr Garate, she was a witness to this heroic event she surely wrote and spoke about it many times. Work your way through the list and count how many times she mentions Mr Uruchurtu`s courageous act to Elizabeth Nye. Also, how many mentions she gives of Mr Uruchurtu.
1. She was interviewed on her arrival in New York and the interview she gave was printed in The New York Times of 23 April 1912. (The interview is also reproduced on ET)
2. A lengthy article she wrote in 1934 appears on the Charles Pellegrino website. Charles Pellegrino Web Site
3. Pageant Magazine Oct 1953 edition. A six page article `I was on the Titanic` Pages 76-81.
4. In 1957 Miss Russell was one of a number of survivors who were interviewed by BBC TV. This can be seen on YouTube at: Titanic Archive - 1957 Interviews - YouTube
5. A lengthy and detailed article by Miss Russell appeared in The Ladies Home Companion magazine Vol II, No 6 May 1964. `I was Aboard The Titanic` Pages 88-97
6. Miss Russell recorded a 20 minute radio talk for the BBC in 1970 which can be heard today at BBC - Archive - Survivors of the Titanic - Line Up | Edith Russell
7.. A further interview, date unknown, with British Pathe News can be seen on YouTube at Titanic Documentary (Date Unknown) - YouTube
8. An article in The Doncaster Evening Post from 1974 appears on this site.
So, Edith had at least 8 opportunities to tell the world the wonderful story Mr Garate says she witnessed. How many mentions does Miss Russell give to Manuel Uruchurtu during these opportunities? I can save you the bother of checking Mr Lopez; The answer is not one. Doesn`t that tell you something? Please, check as many other of Edith`s articles as you like to see if you can find a mention of the incident Mr Garate alleges. I will tell you now - you would have more chance of reaching a successful outcome if you spent your time looking for Elvis!
B. Another of Mr Garate`s persistent claims (mentioned again by him in Post 25) has been that there is a recognition of the heroic act in United States Congress, 62nd Congress, 2nd Session,20 August 1912, Document 933 having been found there by Robert Bracken, a US Titanic Researcher. The Reforma enquiries confirmed that there is no recognition of a heroic act in the document. If you cannot accept that I would be happy to send a copy of the document to you. I spoke with Robert Bracken and he denied ever finding any information connecting Elizabeth Nye with Manuel Uruchurtu. After I mentioned this to Mr Garate in Post 31 he replied in Post 33 still listing Mr Bracken as one of his evidences. How ridiculous was that!
C. Search the web and you will find many websites on which Mr Garate has said that the memoirs of Col Pita contain his account of a meeting between Elizabeth Nye and the widow of Mr Uruchurtu. The Reforma found the memoirs which showed Mr Garate to be incorrect yet again. The Col mentions only an unnamed woman who spoke to the widow in fluent Spanish. Yet in Mr Garate`s version the woman, who he says was Elizabeth Nye, then travelled to meet with other relatives where it was found necessary to ask the local school teacher to translate the conversation! Does that sound like the same woman to you? To top it all Mr Garate adds (and this is my favourite fib of them all!) that the conversation was recorded by Mr Gilberto Escobosa, Official Chronicler of the City of Hermosillo. To bolster the importance of that statement Mr Garate added “I think there it might not be any doubt in the official documents related by a historian and chronicler” Considering that The Reforma enquiries confirmed that Mr Escobosa was not born until after the conversation took place I think there is a great deal of doubt!
I could go on but quite frankly I am getting bored with picking holes in his story, there are so many. If you wish to carry on believing everything that Mr Garate says about the Titanic then of course you have every right to hold that, almost solitary, view. The onus probandi however remains with Mr Garate, it is for him to prove his case, but do you seriously think that with his track record so far he will ever be able to do that ? I would prepare yourself for a very long wait.
I said at the start that one of your remarks on facebook had upset me. I find it very very sad, lamentable infact, that you are seeking to withhold due recognition to a fellow countryman of yours, Antonio Ferrary. You have posted a denial of his nationality and claimed that Encyclopedia Titanica only lists his nationality as unknown. Not so, it is twice shown as Mexican. I can only presume, that for some unknown reason you wish Manuel Uruchurtu to continue to be known as the only Mexican on the Titanic. You are therefore attempting to deprive a gallant fellow citizen of yours the full recognition he thoroughly deserves as an undisputed Hero of the Titanic Disaster. As a trimmer in the Engine Dept keeping the electricity running for the benefit of others Mr Ferrary did not have the chance that the passengers had of possible escape from the decks. Instead he had to remain at his duty post and watch the water rising around him until his life was over. Shame on you.
If you do not wish to accept Mr Ferrary`s nationality from a British website then I suggest you look at this Mexican site dated 14 Apr 2012
www codigosguanajuato com/data2/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6495:fueron-dos-los-mexicanos-que-perecieron-con-el-titanic&catid=42:cultura&Itemid=65
Códigos, los Signos del Estado - FUERON DOS LOS MEXICANOS QUE PERECIERON CON EL TITANIC
Will you be putting that link on facebook or shall I ?
Mr Lopez, it is you who should be making an enormous apology. Not to me, but to the memory of Mr Ferrary, and to the two innocent people these discussions entwine, Manuel Uruchurtu and Elizabeth Nye. I am sure they would all be appalled at the nonsense that has been emanating from Mexico on this subject.