Maps for the passengers

[George Behe]

Hi, Mike!

> The date in the Marcus book and on the THS poster is December 1911. Is this the same thing you were talking about >George?

I'm referring to the similar (but later) plan that was actually handed out to the Titanic's passengers and prospective passengers. This plan has "March 1912" printed near the lower left corner of its interior and "29/3/12" printed in the lower right corner of its front cover. The March plan shows the location of all the deck chairs on the Titanic's boat deck and other details that are missing from the December plan.

I would have liked to bring the March plan to South Carolina, but my two suitcases were already jammed with stuff (and, unfortunately, my valet had the day off.)

It was great seeing you in Florence, Mike!

All my best,

George

 

[Pat Cook]

Hi Lester,

I have (through the courtesy of Rosanne MacIntyre) a 1969 "Maiden Voyage", second edition published by Viking Press which includes the Dec., 1912 deck plans. Could be Viking was the only publisher to include these plans.

Best regards.
Cook

 

[Daniel Klistorner]

All,

There was an auction some time in the later part last year that, if I'm correct, was auctioning off a March 1912 Titanic plan. I can't remember which auction this was but I think it went for £200 ... I could be wrong though.

About these plans, how did they survive the past 90 years? Obviously Dec. 1911 plans were also handed out to passengers since Fr. Browne got one. His survived with the rest of his Titanic material. I know at least one survived the sinking, but how did the other Dec. 1911 and March 1912 plans survive to this day?

Daniel.

 

[Dave Hudson]

I also recall an original Dec., 1911 plan being on ebay a year or two ago. All I remember was that the opening bid was $5000(!). A bit expensive for me...

David

 

[Robert Thompson]

Just checked the copy of Marcus's The Maiden Voyage. It is a 1969 hard cover edition but I don't think a first edition but does include the Dec 1911 deck plan. They also Acknowledge the Steamship Historical Society of Staten Island with permission to reproduce the deck plans. Could this be another original out there.

As an added bonus my book also came with a newspaper clipping from 16 April 1975 about Edwina Mckenzie (Troutt). Quite an informative article. It does also seem to confirm she was in lifeboat 16 as it also mentions Master of Arms Bailey.

Any one that would like a scanned copy just email me and let me know

Robert

 

[Jake Angus]

My deck plans from "The Maiden Voyage" (recently purchased on ebay for $5.99 + shipping!) show the Maids and Valets Saloon on C Deck with long tables and seats, but it's not labeled as such.

And, where the Cafe Parisien is located, the plans indicate "Restaurant Promenade".

Also, it is of note that many of the Parlour Suites actually shared bathroom/WC facilities.

 

[Lester Mitcham]

Hi Jake,

I am not familiar with the plans in "The Maiden Voyage". Are they full deck plans or just 1st Class? - Even the onboard plans given to 1st Class passengers show the area of the Cafe Parisian as: "Restaurant Promenade". - The Maids and Valets Saloon is also unlabelled.

With regard to the Parlour Suites, I understand you to be commenting on the Parlour-bedrooms aft of the Parlour Suites. - Rooms such as B-63/65 and C-61/63. While they could be booked together with a Private Bath and Lavatory, each room could be booked separately with or without the Private Bath and Lavatory. - The rooms themselves cost £110 [£120 for two passengers] on B-deck and £100 [£110] on C-deck. In each case the Private Bath and Lavatory cost an addition £45. - If the rooms were separately booked then only one of each pair would have had bathroom/WC facilities.

I hope that helps

 

[Jake Angus]

"I am not familiar with the plans in "The Maiden Voyage". Are they full deck plans or just 1st Class?"

The plans are just for First Class. Have you calculated the cost of these rooms in 2002 dollars? Last night I calculated $267.00 in 1912 dollars to be something like $4000+ in 2002 dollars!!!!!!! I'm still reeling from that one!

 

[Lester Mitcham]

Sounds as if they will be a copy of Father Browne's deck plans.

No I have not; but looking at www.westegg.com/inflation/ $267 US in 1912 = $4952.10 in 2002. - What is your figure of $267 based on? - The advertised cost for B-63 for 1 passenger without Private Bath and Lavatory was $550 [2 passengers $300 each]. With Private Bath and Lavatory 1 passenger $775; 2 passengers $825.

 

[Jake Angus]

My figure for $267.00 was, I thought, for a cabin on the ship (First Class, natch). After searching the deckplans I cannot find this anywhere.

It must be that whistling sound I hear in the back of my head! It's my brain cells bailing by the thousands!!!!!!!!! ;`}

 

[Bob Godfrey]

Moving to the other extreme, the adjusted rate for a 1912 Third Class ticket today would be about $700. Nearest equivalent on the QE2 price list is a dog ticket for $500.

 

[Bob Godfrey]

If anyone is looking for the base price for First Class single cabins without extras in 1912, Margaret 'Molly' Brown (who wasn't short of a few bob) and Colonel Gracie each paid about £28 for their tickets - roughly $140 then, $2500 now - just about what you'd pay for a standard cabin on a modern 'Queen'. It's convenient to remember that the cheapest rate for First Class was roughly twice the rate for Second Class, which in turn was roughly twice the rate for Third Class. Feature writers in tabloid newspaper never fail to exaggerate the difference by comparing the price of a Third Class ticket with that of a Promenade Suite in First Class.

 

[Lester Mitcham]

Hi Bob,

Not just reporters. I recall a radio interview some years back, where the guy who made ANTR, gave 3 reasons why wanted to make the film. Reason no 3 eludes me; but:
1] Was that the 3rd Class fare was [I think he said] £12, but "the 1st Class fare was £875" [implying that that was what each 1st Class passenger paid.
2] That all of the men in 1st Class "dressed in their best to go down like gentlemen".

I could not believe his misunderstandings.

 

[Bob Godfrey]

Hi, Lester. The man in the interview must have been the Producer, Bill MacQuitty. The film was very much his 'baby', and he was a genuine enthusiast, Belfast-born and with personal memories of the building of the ship and of course the shock of the sinking. Granted he was no historian and for him the attraction was largely emotive, but he was by no means ignorant of the truths of the Titanic story and was determined that Walter Lord's work should be translated to the screen without distortion. His biggest problem was convincing the Rank Organisation to make a huge investment in a film about events which they initially dismissed as 'just another shipwreck'. Bill was a good salesman, and he knew how to use (or mis-use!) statistics to make a point. The line about ticket prices was one of several he found to be effective. Another, to lay emphasis on the 'end of an era' angle, was that "In Belfast, the names on the Titanic memorial are in order of importance, while those in the 1914-18 War Memorial are in alphabetical order."

In later life, as a very senior citizen looking back over 40 years to the ANTR project, it's understandable that Bill doesn't recall all of the factual elements with precision but he does remember the sales lines and often quotes those instead! I reckon we can forgive him for that, because without him we'd have only the Hollywood version of events.

 

[Lester Mitcham]

Thank you Bob,

Points noted; and true!