Marconigram send times

[Raych]

Hi everyone,
I'm on a mission to make as comprehensive a table as possible of all Marconigrams sent to and from Titanic. This, where possible, includes time sent/received in Titanic time, but I've ran into trouble with those sent from Cape Cod. I cannot for the life of me decipher what the operator has written under 'time sent'. To me, it sort of looks like 10 PM, but, taking into account what time that would make it on Titanic, that doesn't make much sense for either the 13th or 14th. If anyone can make out the time on the four forms below, that would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Ajmal Dar]

Hi everyone,
I'm on a mission to make as comprehensive a table as possible of all Marconigrams sent to and from Titanic. This, where possible, includes time sent/received in Titanic time, but I've ran into trouble with those sent from Cape Cod. I cannot for the life of me decipher what the operator has written under 'time sent'. To me, it sort of looks like 10 PM, but, taking into account what time that would make it on Titanic, that doesn't make much sense for either the 13th or 14th. If anyone can make out the time on the four forms below, that would be greatly appreciated.

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Dear Raych,

It's great that you are doing this project. Will you post your findings on ET? as doubtless everyone on the ET site are fascinated by the Marconigrams side of the tragic Titanic story.

Looks to me like 10 p for sure. Doesn't look like an a. I tried a digital enhancement for you with my mobile phone software but it didn't improve the image.

It will be great to have a definitive chronology of the Marconigram traffic.

Best wishes in your endeavour,

Ajmal
(Nottingham UK)

 

[Gordon Mooneyhan]

Hi Raych,

DGMarconigram1 looks like 10 p.m. April 12. I know it says April 13 above the word "Telegraph" but after the word "Station" it looks very much like Apr 12, 1912. I'm guessing the time to be 11 p.m. IIRC that would be before the wireless broke down. DGMarconigram2 looks like 10 p.m. on April 13. That would make it between 1 and 2 a.m. on the 14th, Titanic time. DGMarconigram3 I'm guessing the time is 12 but your guess is as good as mine when it comes to a.m. or p.m. on that one. The SmithMarconigram I can't make heads or tails on it.

Now if I may indulge in an illustration. Amateur Radio operators still pass traffic similar to the way it was done in 1912. So let's assume that I want to send you a message. I fill out a radiogram form that's not too different from the Marconigram form. It has lines for "From" and "To" just like the Marconigram. I get on my radio and try calling you, but can't get in touch with you. But Ajmal hears me. He copies the message, and he relays it to another station, and it might take as many as 5 or 6 relays to get the message to you, yet each of those messages will say that it was from me and to you. Also, each message will show the date and time that it was sent.

Here's a radiogram form and you can see that it is quite similar to the Marconigram form: (It didn't quite format correctly when I pasted it into this post)

ARRL Radiogram Form (Excel)

​ ​ ​ The American Radio Relay League RADIOGRAM Via Amateur Radio	Comments or suggestions? Pls send email to [email protected]
Number	Precedence	HX	Station of Origin	Check	Place of Origin	Time Filed	Date
To:	This Radio Message was received at:
	Amateur Station: Date: Name: Street Address: City, State, Zip:	← Use Alt+Enter (on a PC) to insert line breaks for address
Telephone Number:
____________ ____________ ____________ ____________ ____________
____________ ____________ ____________ ____________ ____________
____________ ____________ ____________ ____________ ____________
____________ ____________ ____________ ____________ ____________
____________ ____________ ____________ ____________ ____________
Sig:
FROM DATE TIME				TO DATE TIME
REC'D		SENT
A licensed Amateur Radio Operator, whose address is shown above, handled this message free of charge. As such messages are handled solely for the pleasure of operating, a "Ham" Operator can accept no compensation. A return message may be filed with the Ham delivering this message to you. Further information on Amateur Radio may be obtained from ARRL Headquarters, 225, Main Street, Newington, CT 06111.	The American Radio Relay League, Inc. is the National Membership Society of licensed radio amateurs and the publisher of QST Magazine. One of its functions is promotion of public service communication among Amateur Operators. To that end, The League has organized the National Traffic System for daily nationwide message handling.	← Full text shows when printed from Excel
RADIOGRAM COMPONENTS:	← CUT HERE
Number: Your message number	Place of Origin: Where message originates.
Precedence: "R" for ROUTINE unless it is an emergency! Routine, Health & Welfare, Priority or Emergency	Time Filed: In ZULU time (rarely used).
Date: Date message was written (Month & Day).
Handling Instruction(s): (*Most commonly used) A = Collect landline delivery authorized by addressee within X miles (i.e., A25 - If no number, authorization is unlimited). B = Cancel message if not delivered within X hours of filing time; service originating station (i.e., B4). *C = Report date and time of delivery (TOD) to originating station. D = Report to originating station the identity of station from which received, plus date and time. Report identity of station to which relayed, plus date and time, or if delivered report date, time and method of delivery. E = Delivering station get reply from addresses, originate message back. F = Hold delivery until....(date). (i.e. F5 holds until the "5th") *G = Delivery by mail or landline toll call not required. If expense involved, cancel message and service originating station.	To: Put name and amateur call sign (if applicable); Street address; City; State (2-letter abbrev) & ZIP; Telephone including area code. ZIP is required for NTS messages sent digitally via Packet, etc. Body: Text goes here, maximum 5 words per line and 25 words total. A telephone number with area code counts as 3 words (707 555 1212). ARL numbered texts are spelled out (i.e., ARL FORTY SIX). "73" is written as 73, counts as one word. Signature: This is the signature of the person who wrote the message, may differ from the Originator. If a ham operator, include name and call sign. If not a ham, include name and phone number (including area code). REC'D: Operator call sign message was rec'd from, time and date.
Originating Station: Ham who formats & submits it to NTS. Check: Word count for message body. If ARL text is used, precede count with ARL (i.e., ARL22).	SENT: Operator call sign sent to, time and date. If receiver is last stop and delivers the message, note to whom delivered, how, and time and date.
					kg6ila: 09/2003

 

[Gordon Mooneyhan]

Raych,

If I may ask a question. Do you have a copy of the ice warning from Mesaba that was sent to Titanic? If you do, does it have the prefix MSG, or does MSG appear anywhere on it? I'm trying to resolve that issue for a book I'm writing about the wreck.

Thanks much,

Gordon

 

[Steven Christian]

Raych,

If I may ask a question. Do you have a copy of the ice warning from Mesaba that was sent to Titanic? If you do, does it have the prefix MSG, or does MSG appear anywhere on it? I'm trying to resolve that issue for a book I'm writing about the wreck.

Thanks much,

Gordon

You can see a copy of of it here. Did you mean MGY? That was Titanic's call sign. MGY appears on the Mesaba ice warning. Cheers.

https://www.jpr-global.com/blog/titanics-maiden-final-voyage/ice-warning-mesaba/

 

[Steven Christian]

A bit of info/trivia. Something that I'm sure many here know already but one of those things I overlooked over the years and never put together. Titanic: MGY, Mesaba: MMU, Californian: MWL, Carpathia: MPA, Cape Race: MCE ect ect. The prefix M of the call signs designated that in was a Marconi station. There were many designations in 1912 but it seems most that night were Marconi. Which makes sense as Marconi was one of if not the biggest radio company at the time. Anyway a list of call signs from 1912 below. Think I have posted this before. Cheers all.
Wireless Telegraph Stations of the World: January 1, 1912
P.S...If you look at this list remember it is for January 1912. Titanic is listed as MUC which was later changed early in 1912 to MGY. Also Mesaba listed as MMV.

Ships and Boats
One of the earliest applications of radiotelegraph operation, long predating broadcast radio, were marine radio stations installed aboard ships at sea. In the absence of international standards, early transmitters constructed after Guglielmo Marconi's first trans-Atlantic message in 1901 were issued arbitrary two-letter calls by radio companies, alone or later preceded by a one-letter company identifier. These mimicked an earlier railroad telegraph convention where short, two-letter identifiers served as Morse code abbreviations to denote the various individual stations on the line (for instance, AX could represent Halifax). 'N' and two letters would identify US Navy; 'M' and two letters would be a Marconi Station. On April 14, 1912, the RMS Titanic station MGY, busily delivering telegram traffic from ship's passengers to the coastal station at Cape Race, Newfoundland (call sign MCE), would receive warnings of ice fields from Marconi stations aboard the M.V. Mesaba (call sign MMU) and the S.S. Californian (call sign MWL). Its distress call CQD CQD CQD CQD CQD CQD DE MGY MGY MGY MGY MGY MGY position 41.44N 50.24W would be answered by a station aboard the Carpathia (call sign MPA). Later that same year, an international conference standardised radio call signs so that the first two letters would uniquely identify a transmitter's country of origin.

From the website:

Call Sign - Ships and Boats | Ships Boats

 

[Raych]

Dear Raych,

It's great that you are doing this project. Will you post your findings on ET? as doubtless everyone on the ET site are fascinated by the Marconigrams side of the tragic Titanic story.

Looks to me like 10 p for sure. Doesn't look like an a. I tried a digital enhancement for you with my mobile phone software but it didn't improve the image.

It will be great to have a definitive chronology of the Marconigram traffic.

Best wishes in your endeavour,

Ajmal
(Nottingham UK)

Thanks so much for your help, Ajmal. Yes, I would be more than happy to post it all here when it's completed if people are interested!

 

[Raych]

Hi Raych,

DGMarconigram1 looks like 10 p.m. April 12. I know it says April 13 above the word "Telegraph" but after the word "Station" it looks very much like Apr 12, 1912. I'm guessing the time to be 11 p.m. IIRC that would be before the wireless broke down. DGMarconigram2 looks like 10 p.m. on April 13. That would make it between 1 and 2 a.m. on the 14th, Titanic time. DGMarconigram3 I'm guessing the time is 12 but your guess is as good as mine when it comes to a.m. or p.m. on that one. The SmithMarconigram I can't make heads or tails on it.

Now if I may indulge in an illustration. Amateur Radio operators still pass traffic similar to the way it was done in 1912. So let's assume that I want to send you a message. I fill out a radiogram form that's not too different from the Marconigram form. It has lines for "From" and "To" just like the Marconigram. I get on my radio and try calling you, but can't get in touch with you. But Ajmal hears me. He copies the message, and he relays it to another station, and it might take as many as 5 or 6 relays to get the message to you, yet each of those messages will say that it was from me and to you. Also, each message will show the date and time that it was sent.

Here's a radiogram form and you can see that it is quite similar to the Marconigram form: (It didn't quite format correctly when I pasted it into this post)

ARRL Radiogram Form (Excel)

​ ​ ​ The American Radio Relay League RADIOGRAM Via Amateur Radio	Comments or suggestions? Pls send email to [email protected]
Number	Precedence	HX	Station of Origin	Check	Place of Origin	Time Filed	Date
To:	This Radio Message was received at:
	Amateur Station: Date: Name: Street Address: City, State, Zip:	← Use Alt+Enter (on a PC) to insert line breaks for address
Telephone Number:
____________ ____________ ____________ ____________ ____________
____________ ____________ ____________ ____________ ____________
____________ ____________ ____________ ____________ ____________
____________ ____________ ____________ ____________ ____________
____________ ____________ ____________ ____________ ____________
Sig:
FROM DATE TIME				TO DATE TIME
REC'D		SENT
A licensed Amateur Radio Operator, whose address is shown above, handled this message free of charge. As such messages are handled solely for the pleasure of operating, a "Ham" Operator can accept no compensation. A return message may be filed with the Ham delivering this message to you. Further information on Amateur Radio may be obtained from ARRL Headquarters, 225, Main Street, Newington, CT 06111.	The American Radio Relay League, Inc. is the National Membership Society of licensed radio amateurs and the publisher of QST Magazine. One of its functions is promotion of public service communication among Amateur Operators. To that end, The League has organized the National Traffic System for daily nationwide message handling.	← Full text shows when printed from Excel
RADIOGRAM COMPONENTS:	← CUT HERE
Number: Your message number	Place of Origin: Where message originates.
Precedence: "R" for ROUTINE unless it is an emergency! Routine, Health & Welfare, Priority or Emergency	Time Filed: In ZULU time (rarely used).
Date: Date message was written (Month & Day).
Handling Instruction(s): (*Most commonly used) A = Collect landline delivery authorized by addressee within X miles (i.e., A25 - If no number, authorization is unlimited). B = Cancel message if not delivered within X hours of filing time; service originating station (i.e., B4). *C = Report date and time of delivery (TOD) to originating station. D = Report to originating station the identity of station from which received, plus date and time. Report identity of station to which relayed, plus date and time, or if delivered report date, time and method of delivery. E = Delivering station get reply from addresses, originate message back. F = Hold delivery until....(date). (i.e. F5 holds until the "5th") *G = Delivery by mail or landline toll call not required. If expense involved, cancel message and service originating station.	To: Put name and amateur call sign (if applicable); Street address; City; State (2-letter abbrev) & ZIP; Telephone including area code. ZIP is required for NTS messages sent digitally via Packet, etc. Body: Text goes here, maximum 5 words per line and 25 words total. A telephone number with area code counts as 3 words (707 555 1212). ARL numbered texts are spelled out (i.e., ARL FORTY SIX). "73" is written as 73, counts as one word. Signature: This is the signature of the person who wrote the message, may differ from the Originator. If a ham operator, include name and call sign. If not a ham, include name and phone number (including area code). REC'D: Operator call sign message was rec'd from, time and date.
Originating Station: Ham who formats & submits it to NTS. Check: Word count for message body. If ARL text is used, precede count with ARL (i.e., ARL22).	SENT: Operator call sign sent to, time and date. If receiver is last stop and delivers the message, note to whom delivered, how, and time and date.
					kg6ila: 09/2003

Hi Gordon,
Thanks so much for your help in deciphering the writing, as well as the added information as it's very useful. I was under the impression it would have been noted on the form if a middle man jumped in and took down the message but, if that isn't the case, that could totally explain a lot with these. So, just to clarify, if translating the time on these to Titanic time has it fall within the period in which the Marconi wireless was out of commission, it could simply meant it was sent by Cape Cod at that time and taken down by another station? And then they passed it on to Titanic when the wireless was working again? If that's the case, I doubt there's any hope of figuring out what time it actually reached Titanic.

As for the extra date above the word 'telegraph', this is a total stab in the dark but I'm wondering whether that was the date it was sent to Marconi's head office? I've read that ships did this at the end of a voyage, so I suppose it's safe to assume land stations did it too?

Thanks again, you're very kind.

 

[Mike Spooner]

If you want a good book covering wireless communication on Titanic with other ships to calling and receiving messages.
Recommend: TITANIC CALLING by Michael Hughes and Katherine Bosworth.

 

[Ajmal Dar]

Thanks so much for your help, Ajmal. Yes, I would be more than happy to post it all here when it's completed if people are interested!

I think I'll get that book stated here called Titanic Calling until you post your list. The story of the Marconi Communications that night would make a rivetting Docu-Drama for the Telly for sure.

Best regards,

Ajmal

 

[Gordon Mooneyhan]

You can see a copy of of it here. Did you mean MGY? That was Titanic's call sign. MGY appears on the Mesaba ice warning. Cheers.

https://www.jpr-global.com/blog/titanics-maiden-final-voyage/ice-warning-mesaba/

Hi Steven,

Thanks much for the link to the Marconigram from Mesaba. There is something on the "Prefix" line but it's only 2 characters so it's not MSG. MSG was a prefix for "Master Ship Message: which was basically a code for drop everything and get this message to the bridge ASAP. Since the Mesaba message did not contain the MSG prefix, there was no urgency to get the message to the bridge. Can't really fault Bride or Phillips for that. If anyone wants to assign blame, I would say that the blame rests squarely with whoever originated the message on Mesaba.

 

[Gordon Mooneyhan]

Hi Gordon,
Thanks so much for your help in deciphering the writing, as well as the added information as it's very useful. I was under the impression it would have been noted on the form if a middle man jumped in and took down the message but, if that isn't the case, that could totally explain a lot with these. So, just to clarify, if translating the time on these to Titanic time has it fall within the period in which the Marconi wireless was out of commission, it could simply meant it was sent by Cape Cod at that time and taken down by another station? And then they passed it on to Titanic when the wireless was working again? If that's the case, I doubt there's any hope of figuring out what time it actually reached Titanic.

As for the extra date above the word 'telegraph', this is a total stab in the dark but I'm wondering whether that was the date it was sent to Marconi's head office? I've read that ships did this at the end of a voyage, so I suppose it's safe to assume land stations did it too?

Thanks again, you're very kind.

The station that ultimately delivered the message should have kept a record including the time, as to whether or not the time was local or ship time, or Titanic's time, that can't be said. If the delivery station was on land, it was likely using local time. If the delivering station was on a ship, then it more than likely would use the Apparent Ship Time. The other part of the problem is locating those records. I understand that the Marconi Archives are now at a university in the UK.

 

[Ajmal Dar]

Hi Steven,

Thanks much for the link to the Marconigram from Mesaba. There is something on the "Prefix" line but it's only 2 characters so it's not MSG. MSG was a prefix for "Master Ship Message: which was basically a code for drop everything and get this message to the bridge ASAP. Since the Mesaba message did not contain the MSG prefix, there was no urgency to get the message to the bridge. Can't really fault Bride or Phillips for that. If anyone wants to assign blame, I would say that the blame rests squarely with whoever originated the message on Mesaba.

Agreed, I think that the Mesaba should have made the message MSG. Bride and Phillips had already sent plenty of similar messages to the Bridge so I don't think that one more would have made a difference to the ship's Navigators. Was it not common practice to attempt to spot Bergs and then try to navigate around them as the Carpathia did a few hours later.

All the best,

Ajmal

 

[Gordon Mooneyhan]

Agreed, I think that the Mesaba should have made the message MSG. Bride and Phillips had already sent plenty of similar messages to the Bridge so I don't think that one more would have made a difference to the ship's Navigators. Was it not common practice to attempt to spot Bergs and then try to navigate around them as the Carpathia did a few hours later.

All the best,

Ajmal

Ajmal,
That was the common practice at the time. At the British Inquiry, 11 ship captains testified that Captain E.J. Smith did exactly what they would have done under the same circumstances (5 of the captains were from other subsidiaries of International Mercantile Marine, the White Star Line owners, while 6 of the captains were from other companies). Now, if they had the Mesaba warning, it's possible that Captain Smith might have ordered all engines stopped or a reduction of speed since the Mesaba warning indicated ice extremely close to the Titanic's course.

 

[Steven Christian]

Hi Steven,

Thanks much for the link to the Marconigram from Mesaba. There is something on the "Prefix" line but it's only 2 characters so it's not MSG. MSG was a prefix for "Master Ship Message: which was basically a code for drop everything and get this message to the bridge ASAP. Since the Mesaba message did not contain the MSG prefix, there was no urgency to get the message to the bridge. Can't really fault Bride or Phillips for that. If anyone wants to assign blame, I would say that the blame rests squarely with whoever originated the message on Mesaba.

Ok thanks for the info. I learned something new. One would think any message that was an ice warning would have priority and would be delivered immediately regardless of what else was on the message. But that wouldn't be unique in history. The message sent to Pearl Harbor before the attack that wasn't delivered until after the bombing started because somebody didn't mark it priority comes to mind. Cheers.