jonathan mall
Guest
I am so disgusted as so many men died when so many lifeboats went half or even less than half-filled, why were men barred from entering the lifeboats even the last ones which left then being filled up.
MEN being barred from entering the lifeboats
- Thread starter jonathan mall
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Jeremy Lee
Member
Because some officers misunderstood that it was 'Women and children only" and not "Women and children first"!
Peter Engberg-Klarström
Member
Jonathan; it wasn't like this everywhere. When No 15 was lowered away, it contained mainly men - passengers and crew. I believe that out of possibly 65 occupants, about 25 or so were men passengers and 27 or 28 crewmen. Murdoch allowed them in.
jonathan mall
Guest
Peter: True Murdoch allowed men into the boats when there were no women & children present, which i think should have been the correct procedure it seems the starboard boats saved more lives then the port boats, boats 11,13 & 15 were the only boats to leave the Titanic filled to capacity. You should see the 3D film Ghosts of the Abyss it is brilliant i have seen it 4 times.
Jeremy Lee
Member
Lucky you, if I want to watch GOTA, I will have to catch a plane to Tokyo to watch it.....
Michael H. Standart
Member
>>You should see the 3D film Ghosts of the Abyss it is brilliant i have seen it 4 times.<<
Errrrmmmmm...yes. We know. I've seen it several times myself and look forward to whatever time Disney will release the DVD. If I may be so bold, what does this have to do with the decision making in the evacuation process???-
Errrrmmmmm...yes. We know. I've seen it several times myself and look forward to whatever time Disney will release the DVD. If I may be so bold, what does this have to do with the decision making in the evacuation process???-
I think it is important to remeber that for 1912 Titanic's evcuation was a relative success. 700 passengers and crew where SAFELY removed from a foundering vessel.
Abandonment of a vessel is a dangerous undertaking in the best of conditions, with a ship loosing stability the danger increases significantly.
That fact that only 700 out of a possible (given the lifeboats) 1200 (not sure of the number) where saved has more then a few meanings.
1. Not enough lifeboats for all.
2. Boats where not filled to capacity.
3. Panic was averted for the majority of the night.
Fear is a dangerous creature, it spreads much like a fire and it causes even the most rational person to go looney. The officers and crew of Titanic did an outstanding job of "keeping the peace" until the very end.
Abandonment of a vessel is a dangerous undertaking in the best of conditions, with a ship loosing stability the danger increases significantly.
That fact that only 700 out of a possible (given the lifeboats) 1200 (not sure of the number) where saved has more then a few meanings.
1. Not enough lifeboats for all.
2. Boats where not filled to capacity.
3. Panic was averted for the majority of the night.
Fear is a dangerous creature, it spreads much like a fire and it causes even the most rational person to go looney. The officers and crew of Titanic did an outstanding job of "keeping the peace" until the very end.
Jeremy Lee
Member
>>1. Not enough lifeboats for all.<<
Even if there were enough lifeboats for all, I doubt they had enough time to launch them all before the ship sank.
Even if there were enough lifeboats for all, I doubt they had enough time to launch them all before the ship sank.
Manuel Reiprich
Member
Jeremy wrote: "Even if there were enough lifeboats for all, I doubt they had enough time to launch them all before the ship sank."
Jeremy, look for the thread: "Which lifeboat - If she would have had enough lifeboats", theres
a lot information about that.
Best regards
Manuel
Jeremy, look for the thread: "Which lifeboat - If she would have had enough lifeboats", theres
a lot information about that.
Best regards
Manuel
One question I always ask myself is: just how culpable was Lightoller in his rule "Women and Children ONLY"? How many people were sacrificed because of this rule?
Cheers
Paul
Cheers
Paul
Michael H. Standart
Member
Culpable in what regard? Certainly it cost some lives, but I think we're on very thin ice when we try to make judgement calls on that. Like every officer and crewman on the ship that night, Lights had to make the best of a really bad situation and try and hold off panic even knowing that things were going to get worse. Averting panic up until it no longer mattered in all likelihood saved far more lives then his perhaps overly zealous interpretation of his orders did.
Geoff Whitfield
Member
I've always wondered if Lightoller was secretly guilt ridden in later life. The fact that he knew Titanic was doomed, coupled with his obvious knowledge of the lack of lifeboat spaces is inescapable. Was he that much of a "Company Man" for his instructions to overule his moral obligations?
George Behe
Member
Hi, Geoff!
Thank you for your thought-provoking post about Lightoller. Wouldn't it be wonderful if a way could somehow be found for these unanswerable questions to be answered?
Take care, my friend.
Sincerely,
George
Thank you for your thought-provoking post about Lightoller. Wouldn't it be wonderful if a way could somehow be found for these unanswerable questions to be answered?
Take care, my friend.
Sincerely,
George
Bill Wormstedt
Member
Keep in mind, that Lightoller's *intent* was to load more passengers into the lifeboats from the D Deck doors. When he kept the men out of the lifeboats, he didn't think that was their 'last chance'.
Inger Sheil
Member
But at what point did he 'know' the Titanic was doomed, Geoff? Even Wyn Craig Wade, one of the first to criticise him extensively, believes he was answering with absolute sincerity when he said he didn't realise until comparatively late that the ship was going to founder.
I don't know about him being guilt-ridden - the family members I've spoken to certainly didn't indicate it. They described him as a very proactive, forward thinking man, so such tortured introspection doesn't particularly seem in character. One family member said he wasn't inclined to brood over the past. Of course, we can never know what a man feels in his very innermost soul. He himself wrote that it was wise not to dwell on the final moments as the ship went down. He possibly had regrets - I find it hard to imagine that anyone in that situation, no matter what sort of job they did, would not look back at some point and wonder how they could have done better.
I don't know about him being guilt-ridden - the family members I've spoken to certainly didn't indicate it. They described him as a very proactive, forward thinking man, so such tortured introspection doesn't particularly seem in character. One family member said he wasn't inclined to brood over the past. Of course, we can never know what a man feels in his very innermost soul. He himself wrote that it was wise not to dwell on the final moments as the ship went down. He possibly had regrets - I find it hard to imagine that anyone in that situation, no matter what sort of job they did, would not look back at some point and wonder how they could have done better.
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