Morning After: Where were the bodies?


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Aaron_2016

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I bought Jack Grimm's book back in 81 and even at the age of nine I thought that this object was not a rock. As we can clearly see in the above photo, one of the blades is missing. However, I do have couple of questions--how would the impact with the iceberg cause one of these blades to fall off ,secondly, how do we know how many people were trapped in the ship? I've got a feeling there were a lot more than 100. I tend to agree with Aaron, that if Grimm's discovery was legit, he would have shared credit for Titanic's discovery,and Ballard's star would not shine as brightly as it has.
We can only speculate as to how many people were still deep inside the ship. Survivor Frank Prentice said some of the passengers would not leave their cabins.

3rd class Steward John Hart was ordered to escort the passengers to the boat deck. He said:

"Those that were willing to go to the boat deck were shown the way. Some were not willing to go to the boat deck, and stayed behind. Some of them went to the boat deck, and found it rather cold, and saw the boats being lowered away, and thought themselves more secure on the ship, and consequently returned to their cabin. I heard two or three say they preferred to remain on the ship than be tossed about on the water like a cockle shell."

(He also handed out life jackets to the 3rd class passengers.)

"Some refused to put them on. They said they saw no occasion for putting them on. They did not believe the ship was hurt in any way."

Regarding to the lost propeller blade. The Olympic lost a blade '3' times in 1912 alone. Passengers who were on the Olympic described the same sensation as those on the Titanic. There were also Titanic survivors who were on the Olympic when she lost her blade and believed the same thing happened to the Titanic.

Here is a video I made about the lost blade and what the survivors believed happened.

Skip to 1.45




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robert warren

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Feb 19, 2016
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So basically, instead of a spur as depicted in all movies and assorted media,the iceberg had a long shelf. The Titanic ran over this according to survivor accounts. This would explain why fireman Barrett said he saw water coming up through the floor of the boiler room he was in.
 
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PRR5406

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I don't understand how a prop blade could be loosened by grazing an iceberg. Jack Grimm invalidated his search by having a trained monkey jump on the ocean maps and allegedly point to the sinking location. My guess is the blade lays not too far behind the stern, buried in mud.
 
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Aaron_2016

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They searched behind the stern and only found a long path of coal. The Olympic lost a blade 3 times in 1912. Newspapers said she struck a wreck but the official word from the company simply stated she had dropped a blade. I have been told that even an irregular turbulence of water could snap off a blade. When the Olympic lost her's the vibration caused some passengers to be roused from their sleep owing to the sudden vibration. They also felt a strange twisting movement of the ship. The same thing was felt on the Titanic. Some survivors even thought they were going full speed astern. Scarrott was at the bow and Rowe was at the stern and both mistakenly believed she was going full speed astern during and immediately after the collision. Other's felt the same and felt two distinct jars and a long vibration up to 20 seconds long as the ice slid underneath and broke into pieces. The accounts certainly suggest the ship had lost a blade. It would be remarkable if she didn't.


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Mar 18, 2008
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Aside what newspapers claimed Olympic lost only 1 time a blade in 1912. Because of that she had to return to Belfast which had the only dock where the ship could be placed and the blade replaced.
If she did lost a blade 2 more times, why is there no entry or gap between the voyages and that she returned to Belfast?
 
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Aaron_2016

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>>They searched behind the stern and only found a long path of coal.<<

They found a lot of debris to all sides of the stern.
I meant they only found coal well to south of the stern. There was a documentary, I forget which, and they said there was a long path of coal that extended well to the south of the stern for a mile! Would be interested to see the photos they used as I assume they continued to search beyond a mile south in order to deduce that the coal was scattered down that far.


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Mar 18, 2008
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If I remember right they already followed the path of the coal in 1998 to the south. No large/heavy debris there. Can not remember if they had a look again later but in 2010 thy did.
Titanic At 100 Mystery Solved 720p HD (full movie)_2 2315.jpg
 
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Mila

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I wonder how may miles from the Gulf Stream the wreck site is. I know that the Gulf Stream is ever changing, but still there should be some indications of the time they passed the Gulf Stream.
 
Mar 22, 2003
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As you said, its ever changing. The attached shows the situation in April 2016. The overlay shows the track taken by Titanic in 1912.
Apr 2016.jpg

The following shows the situation 10 years earlier in April 2006.
Apr 2006.jpg

I have a record of this from 2003 onward. These are satellite radar images showing the velocity vectors of the ocean currents.
 
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Mila

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Sam,
I've read in one of the mirage articles:
The Labrador current then carried these bergs southward, and they began to melt. This meltwater, with a temperature of 32°F (0°C), rode on top of the main current at the surface of the sea. The warm Gulf Stream current, which tracks eastward from the Grand Banks region toward Europe, had warmed the air above it to 50°F (10°C). The extreme high pressure in the area at that time prohibited the formation of fog and rendered the air dead calm, allowing for efficient and uniform warming. The mile-wide icy river of meltwater snaked much farther south than the Labrador current normally travels, displacing the warmer water of the Gulf Stream. With this cold water directly below the warm air, the air began cooling from the bottom up, and a powerful thermal inversion was born. This represented an amazing—yet ultimately disastrous—confluence of natural events.
Do you believe something like this could have happened?
 
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Aaron_2016

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I like the sound of 'thermal inversion'. Wonder if this is what I saw off the Irish coast. Looking at the below map, I live around the corner from Belfast right where the North Channel merges with the Irish sea. I guess that's why these optical illusions are so common here.



irishsea.gif



Can anyone explain what exactly is the correct scientific name for the mirages I see at day and night where the North channel and the Irish sea meet? Here is footage I took at day and night. Note - the stationary red survey ship continues to be affected well into the night.




Here is another video I made. I am told it is a rare thing to see, but I see this all the time. Is it simply a matter of two different seas merging together right outside my window?



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M

Mila

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Aaron, your mirages have nothing to do with a thermal inversion.
These are inferior mirages. They are also called desert mirages.
You may want to start learning about mirages here Mirages and Green Flashes

Maltin claims there was a superior mirage or even Fata Morgana of the sea surface.

Here's one of my videos of a Fata Morgana of the sea surface

If something like this would have been present at the Titanic's wreck site they would have never seen the stars setting in the ocean. Trust me on that.

Note how the boat's shape is changing constantly, while in your inferior mirage the shape stays the same: erected image above the inverted one. I've never seen an inferior mirage producing more than two images, a superior mirage usually produces many images.

BTW Maltin used my image in the documentary, and a few of my images in his book.
 
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Aaron_2016

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If something like this would have been present at the Titanic's wreck site they would have never seen the stars setting in the ocean. Trust me on that.
Cheers. Great video by the way. Although, what about Captain Lord? He said:


"It was a very strange night. It was hard to define where the sky ended and the water commenced. There was what you call a soft horizon. I was sometimes mistaking the stars low down on the horizon for steamer’s lights."

The lookouts also saw a haze on the horizon in the direction of the ice field ahead. Wouldn't the refraction on the wall of ice make it appear like a mist / haze on the horizon and cause the Californian lights to become a hazy light?

Mr. Stengel said:
"We followed a light that was to the bow of the boat (ship), which looked like in the winter, in the dead of winter, when the windows are frosted with a light coming through them. It was in a haze. Most of the boats rowed toward that light."

Major Peuchen said:
"It was a glare. It was not a distinct light, it was a glare."



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M

Mila

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Aaron, none of the above descriptions is a description of a Fata Morgana of the sea surface. Lord for example is describing stars reflection. When the sea is as a glass it might be hard to say where where the sky ends and the reflection begins.

Ducted mirages are different. The horizon is not just soft, it is ever changing, it is floating.
Watch for example one of my sunset mirages videos

And here a mirage of the sun's reflection
See how "glare of lights" appear?

If there were such mirage, where the Titanic sunk, Gibson and Stone would have seen very, ever changing images all the time, not a constant "glare of lights." and not never changing masthead light and sidelight. It would have been impossible not to notice.
There was no Fata Morgana of the sea surface at the wreck site.

Thank you for commenting on my video.
 
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Aaron_2016

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Aaron, none of the above descriptions is a description of a Fata Morgana of the sea surface. Lord for example is describing stars reflection. When the sea is as a glass it might be hard to say where where the sky ends and the reflection begins......

Any ideas why Gibson saw her masthead light flickering like crazy and saw her deck lights in a glare? He also saw her lights rising high up, including her red port light. At first he thought she was listing heavily to starboard but he was asked if all of her lights rose up at the same time and he said yes, so it would appear the ship they were observing was floating in the air. They saw her lights in a glare (perhaps similar to how survivors saw the Californian's lights). Is it possible that atmospheric elements came into play which could explain the sharp rise of the port light? If the image was inverted wouldn't the port light rise up as the ship sank lower? Indeed all of her lights rose up as she sank lower into the water.


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Mila

Guest
Flickering is very common. No mirage needed
Do you see any mirage there? I do not. The ship was not even at the horizon, not even close to it.
During mirage there is no constant flickering. It is interrupting all the time.
Glare of lights depend on the bearing and the heading. There are some glare of lights in my above video too.
No, atmospheric did not come into play to explain a sharp rise. The Titanic sinking explains it much better.
 
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Aaron_2016

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Thanks, but the Titanic did not list heavily to starboard towards the latter part of the sinking. They were seeing the opposite of what should have been happening i.e. instead of the red light going down and the lights getting lower, they instead saw her red light going way up and her lights getting higher. Gibson was asked repeatedly to explain what he meant by that, but he could not answer. I think he was afraid that if he said the ship appeared to be floating high up into the sky he would be accused of drinking on duty.


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M

Mila

Guest
the Titanic sank lower and lower by the head and the angle became wider and wider as the stern porthole lights lifted and the bow lights sank.
Whatever they saw had nothing to do with a mirage.
 

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