Morning After: Where were the bodies?

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Mila

Guest
As you said, its ever changing. The attached shows the situation in April 2016. The overlay shows the track taken by Titanic in 1912.
View attachment 39505
The following shows the situation 10 years earlier in April 2006.
View attachment 39506
I have a record of this from 2003 onward. These are satellite radar images showing the velocity vectors of the ocean currents.
It does not even appear that the Titanic ever crossed the Gulf Steam. It appears that she crossed much cooler North Atlantic Current. I've read that a passenger on Carpathia moved his chair to shade at 5 p.m. Sunday night. They did cross the Gulf Stream. BTW does somebody know how much south of the wreck site the Carpathia was at 5 p.m.
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Dec 4, 2000
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How many of you have ever tried to find a single human being in open water? I've done it nine times successfully. Experience tells me that live, struggling people can disappear from sight at ranges of under 20 feet in broad daylight and full sun. The "white horses" on the water in the morning would have made things all the more difficult considering so many of the victims were wearing white life vests.

But, then why assume any responsible captain would want to "see" the dead bodies? Rostron did not have the crew and other resources to conduct a massive body recovery mission. His ship was ill-designed for hauling bodies over the rail. If he did recover even half of the floating victims, what would he have done with them? Look at the crowded decks of Carpathia after the rescue. Imagine those grieving widows and children wandering about stacks of bodies in the early stages of decay. Not a pretty sight. If Rostron had a spark of humanity in him he would have avoided that scene at all costs.

A "blind eye" may have been the kindest action he could take as he steamed from the scene.

-- David G. Brown
 
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Aaron_2016

Guest
It does not even appear that the Titanic ever crossed the Gulf Steam. It appears that she crossed much cooler North Atlantic Current. I've read that a passenger on Carpathia moved his chair to shade at 5 p.m. Sunday night. They did cross the Gulf Stream. BTW does somebody know how much south of the wreck site the Carpathia was at 5 p.m.
I think the Titanic was on the northern edge of the gulf stream. The wreckage, debris, and bodies were all pushed far to the north east east. I think the Carpathia steamed northwards after she had picked up the survivors and was steaming for Halifax for quite some time before they turned around and steamed for New York. e.g.


Harold Cottam
"The captain was bound for Halifax first, and then he changed his mind and was bound for New York..."

Q - You say the captain was bound for Halifax?
A - Yes, sir.
Q - How do you know?
A - I went and asked the captain, sir. Three or four ships around about wanted to know where we were bound for, and the captain said he was not decided, be thought he was bound for Halifax; but later on in the morning he changed his mind.
Q - At what time?
A - I can not remember the time.
Q - About what time? Was it forenoon?
A - It may have been about noon.

Captain Rostron
"The first and principal reason was that we had all these women aboard, and I knew they were hysterical and in a bad state. I knew very well, also, that you would want all the news possible. I knew very well, further, that if I went to Halifax, we could get them there all right, but I did not know how many of these people were half dead, how many were injured, or how many were really sick, or anything like that. I knew, also, that if we went to Halifax, we would have the possibility of coming across more ice, and I knew very well what the effect of that would be on people who had had the experience these people had had." (Also possibly a reason why he steamed away from the bodies and the immediate area.) "I knew what that would be the whole time we were in the vicinity of ice. I took that into consideration. I knew very well that if we went to Halifax it would be a case of railway journey for these passengers, as I knew they would have to go to New York, and there would be all the miseries of that." (The papers said a private railway service had already been arranged to take the passengers to New York).

"Furthermore, I did not know what the condition of the weather might be, or what accommodation I could give them in Halifax, and that was a great consideration. One of the greatest considerations that made me turn back."

Q - Your message to your company was practically notice that you had done this?
A - I had done it; but the message did not get off until Monday evening.
Q - You were then?
A - When I sent that message we had been on our way 12 hours.


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Dec 2, 2000
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Easley South Carolina
>>How many of you have ever tried to find a single human being in open water?<<

I have, and it was in a set piece man overboard drill where there was a dummy in dayglo orange with a flashing light and smoke floats thrown in right after it, and I still failed to see it.

I knew right where the damn thing had to be but I could not find it. It's a lesson I never forgot.
 
M

Mila

Guest
I think the Titanic was on the northern edge of the gulf stream
Well, Howells THE MAIDEN VOYAGE OF THE TITANIC— A METEOROLOGICAL PERSPECTIVE plotted sea temperatures measured by other vessels and stated that the Titanic was 150 miles north of the Gulf Steam. I would not have called 150 miles away "the edge". I've looked at satellite images of the Gulf Steam for 9 consecutive Aprils, and never the Gulf Stream was close to the wreck site. In June, July, maybe, but not in April.
 
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Aaron_2016

Guest
What caused the debris, lifeboats, and bodies to drift so far east-north-east? Isn't it true that the southern edge of the ice field was not too far south from the wreck as the Gulf Stream crossed over and brushed the icebergs away to the east which caused great peril for the Carpathia as she had to change course several times to avoid the icebergs? Weren't there other ships like the Mount Temple that were influenced by Gulf stream? e.g.

Captain Moore
Q - After you got well under way, what speed were you making?
A - I should imagine perhaps 11 1/2 knots. Of course, perhaps she would have a little of the Gulf Stream with her too, sir.

Boxhall
Q - Did you realize that you were out of the particular influence of the Gulf Stream?
A - No, sir.



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M

Mila

Guest
Well, Boxhall did not realize he was out of the particular influence of the Gulf Stream because he was not.
But I do agree that Howells's 150 miles is an overstatement. I think around 25 miles sounds more reasonable.
 
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Aaron_2016

Guest
While searching for 1912 articles related to the Titanic. I saw these two regarding the Gulf Stream.



Gulf1.jpg



Gulf2.png



Is this why the Titanic's distress position was wrong? Did they steam off course?


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M

Mila

Guest
I have read that the Gulf Stream was rather strong in 1912 because of unusually hot summer in Cariebean.
Besides there was nothing unusual in icebergs spotted in the place the Titanic sank. I have read that the icebergs in different years were spotted much further south, closer to Bermudas and Asores than to Newfoundland. Also, the Titanic sank not so close to the Gulf Stream, but rather close to the North Atlantic Drift, which originates from the Gulf Stream and appears to be cooler and fresher than the Gulf Stream itself. Also remember that where 2 currents meet the water is very choppy. The water was calm, where the Titanic sank.
 

Ajmal Dar

Member
Jan 5, 2018
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Nottingham
Dear Aaron,

Bearing in mind that we are talking 1912 methods of accuracy, then what is the real accuracy we could have expected seamen to be able to measure to? Surely there would have to be some error in their measurements as they did not have pinpoint accuracy methods/measuring instruments.

Regards,

Ajmal