Morning After: Where were the bodies?

Samuel Halpern

Samuel Halpern

Member
As you said, its ever changing. The attached shows the situation in April 2016. The overlay shows the track taken by Titanic in 1912.
Apr 2016

The following shows the situation 10 years earlier in April 2006.
Apr 2006

I have a record of this from 2003 onward. These are satellite radar images showing the velocity vectors of the ocean currents.
 
M

Mila

Senior Member
Sam,
I've read in one of the mirage articles:
The Labrador current then carried these bergs southward, and they began to melt. This meltwater, with a temperature of 32°F (0°C), rode on top of the main current at the surface of the sea. The warm Gulf Stream current, which tracks eastward from the Grand Banks region toward Europe, had warmed the air above it to 50°F (10°C). The extreme high pressure in the area at that time prohibited the formation of fog and rendered the air dead calm, allowing for efficient and uniform warming. The mile-wide icy river of meltwater snaked much farther south than the Labrador current normally travels, displacing the warmer water of the Gulf Stream. With this cold water directly below the warm air, the air began cooling from the bottom up, and a powerful thermal inversion was born. This represented an amazing—yet ultimately disastrous—confluence of natural events.
Do you believe something like this could have happened?
 
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Aaron_2016

Guest
I like the sound of 'thermal inversion'. Wonder if this is what I saw off the Irish coast. Looking at the below map, I live around the corner from Belfast right where the North Channel merges with the Irish sea. I guess that's why these optical illusions are so common here.



Irishsea



Can anyone explain what exactly is the correct scientific name for the mirages I see at day and night where the North channel and the Irish sea meet? Here is footage I took at day and night. Note - the stationary red survey ship continues to be affected well into the night.




Here is another video I made. I am told it is a rare thing to see, but I see this all the time. Is it simply a matter of two different seas merging together right outside my window?



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M

Mila

Senior Member
Aaron, your mirages have nothing to do with a thermal inversion.
These are inferior mirages. They are also called desert mirages.
You may want to start learning about mirages here Mirages and Green Flashes

Maltin claims there was a superior mirage or even Fata Morgana of the sea surface.

Here's one of my videos of a Fata Morgana of the sea surface

If something like this would have been present at the Titanic's wreck site they would have never seen the stars setting in the ocean. Trust me on that.

Note how the boat's shape is changing constantly, while in your inferior mirage the shape stays the same: erected image above the inverted one. I've never seen an inferior mirage producing more than two images, a superior mirage usually produces many images.

BTW Maltin used my image in the documentary, and a few of my images in his book.
 
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Aaron_2016

Guest
If something like this would have been present at the Titanic's wreck site they would have never seen the stars setting in the ocean. Trust me on that.

Cheers. Great video by the way. Although, what about Captain Lord? He said:


"It was a very strange night. It was hard to define where the sky ended and the water commenced. There was what you call a soft horizon. I was sometimes mistaking the stars low down on the horizon for steamer’s lights."

The lookouts also saw a haze on the horizon in the direction of the ice field ahead. Wouldn't the refraction on the wall of ice make it appear like a mist / haze on the horizon and cause the Californian lights to become a hazy light?

Mr. Stengel said:
"We followed a light that was to the bow of the boat (ship), which looked like in the winter, in the dead of winter, when the windows are frosted with a light coming through them. It was in a haze. Most of the boats rowed toward that light."

Major Peuchen said:
"It was a glare. It was not a distinct light, it was a glare."



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M

Mila

Senior Member
Aaron, none of the above descriptions is a description of a Fata Morgana of the sea surface. Lord for example is describing stars reflection. When the sea is as a glass it might be hard to say where where the sky ends and the reflection begins.

Ducted mirages are different. The horizon is not just soft, it is ever changing, it is floating.
Watch for example one of my sunset mirages videos

And here a mirage of the sun's reflection
See how "glare of lights" appear?

If there were such mirage, where the Titanic sunk, Gibson and Stone would have seen very, ever changing images all the time, not a constant "glare of lights." and not never changing masthead light and sidelight. It would have been impossible not to notice.
There was no Fata Morgana of the sea surface at the wreck site.

Thank you for commenting on my video.
 
A

Aaron_2016

Guest
Aaron, none of the above descriptions is a description of a Fata Morgana of the sea surface. Lord for example is describing stars reflection. When the sea is as a glass it might be hard to say where where the sky ends and the reflection begins......


Any ideas why Gibson saw her masthead light flickering like crazy and saw her deck lights in a glare? He also saw her lights rising high up, including her red port light. At first he thought she was listing heavily to starboard but he was asked if all of her lights rose up at the same time and he said yes, so it would appear the ship they were observing was floating in the air. They saw her lights in a glare (perhaps similar to how survivors saw the Californian's lights). Is it possible that atmospheric elements came into play which could explain the sharp rise of the port light? If the image was inverted wouldn't the port light rise up as the ship sank lower? Indeed all of her lights rose up as she sank lower into the water.


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M

Mila

Senior Member
Flickering is very common. No mirage needed
Do you see any mirage there? I do not. The ship was not even at the horizon, not even close to it.
During mirage there is no constant flickering. It is interrupting all the time.
Glare of lights depend on the bearing and the heading. There are some glare of lights in my above video too.
No, atmospheric did not come into play to explain a sharp rise. The Titanic sinking explains it much better.
 
A

Aaron_2016

Guest
Thanks, but the Titanic did not list heavily to starboard towards the latter part of the sinking. They were seeing the opposite of what should have been happening i.e. instead of the red light going down and the lights getting lower, they instead saw her red light going way up and her lights getting higher. Gibson was asked repeatedly to explain what he meant by that, but he could not answer. I think he was afraid that if he said the ship appeared to be floating high up into the sky he would be accused of drinking on duty.


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M

Mila

Senior Member
the Titanic sank lower and lower by the head and the angle became wider and wider as the stern porthole lights lifted and the bow lights sank.
Whatever they saw had nothing to do with a mirage.
 
M

Mila

Senior Member
As you said, its ever changing. The attached shows the situation in April 2016. The overlay shows the track taken by Titanic in 1912.
View attachment 39505
The following shows the situation 10 years earlier in April 2006.
View attachment 39506
I have a record of this from 2003 onward. These are satellite radar images showing the velocity vectors of the ocean currents.
It does not even appear that the Titanic ever crossed the Gulf Steam. It appears that she crossed much cooler North Atlantic Current. I've read that a passenger on Carpathia moved his chair to shade at 5 p.m. Sunday night. They did cross the Gulf Stream. BTW does somebody know how much south of the wreck site the Carpathia was at 5 p.m.
Figure17
 
David G. Brown

David G. Brown

RIP
How many of you have ever tried to find a single human being in open water? I've done it nine times successfully. Experience tells me that live, struggling people can disappear from sight at ranges of under 20 feet in broad daylight and full sun. The "white horses" on the water in the morning would have made things all the more difficult considering so many of the victims were wearing white life vests.

But, then why assume any responsible captain would want to "see" the dead bodies? Rostron did not have the crew and other resources to conduct a massive body recovery mission. His ship was ill-designed for hauling bodies over the rail. If he did recover even half of the floating victims, what would he have done with them? Look at the crowded decks of Carpathia after the rescue. Imagine those grieving widows and children wandering about stacks of bodies in the early stages of decay. Not a pretty sight. If Rostron had a spark of humanity in him he would have avoided that scene at all costs.

A "blind eye" may have been the kindest action he could take as he steamed from the scene.

-- David G. Brown
 
A

Aaron_2016

Guest
It does not even appear that the Titanic ever crossed the Gulf Steam. It appears that she crossed much cooler North Atlantic Current. I've read that a passenger on Carpathia moved his chair to shade at 5 p.m. Sunday night. They did cross the Gulf Stream. BTW does somebody know how much south of the wreck site the Carpathia was at 5 p.m.

I think the Titanic was on the northern edge of the gulf stream. The wreckage, debris, and bodies were all pushed far to the north east east. I think the Carpathia steamed northwards after she had picked up the survivors and was steaming for Halifax for quite some time before they turned around and steamed for New York. e.g.


Harold Cottam
"The captain was bound for Halifax first, and then he changed his mind and was bound for New York..."

Q - You say the captain was bound for Halifax?
A - Yes, sir.
Q - How do you know?
A - I went and asked the captain, sir. Three or four ships around about wanted to know where we were bound for, and the captain said he was not decided, be thought he was bound for Halifax; but later on in the morning he changed his mind.
Q - At what time?
A - I can not remember the time.
Q - About what time? Was it forenoon?
A - It may have been about noon.

Captain Rostron
"The first and principal reason was that we had all these women aboard, and I knew they were hysterical and in a bad state. I knew very well, also, that you would want all the news possible. I knew very well, further, that if I went to Halifax, we could get them there all right, but I did not know how many of these people were half dead, how many were injured, or how many were really sick, or anything like that. I knew, also, that if we went to Halifax, we would have the possibility of coming across more ice, and I knew very well what the effect of that would be on people who had had the experience these people had had." (Also possibly a reason why he steamed away from the bodies and the immediate area.) "I knew what that would be the whole time we were in the vicinity of ice. I took that into consideration. I knew very well that if we went to Halifax it would be a case of railway journey for these passengers, as I knew they would have to go to New York, and there would be all the miseries of that." (The papers said a private railway service had already been arranged to take the passengers to New York).

"Furthermore, I did not know what the condition of the weather might be, or what accommodation I could give them in Halifax, and that was a great consideration. One of the greatest considerations that made me turn back."

Q - Your message to your company was practically notice that you had done this?
A - I had done it; but the message did not get off until Monday evening.
Q - You were then?
A - When I sent that message we had been on our way 12 hours.


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Michael H. Standart

Michael H. Standart

Member
>>How many of you have ever tried to find a single human being in open water?<<

I have, and it was in a set piece man overboard drill where there was a dummy in dayglo orange with a flashing light and smoke floats thrown in right after it, and I still failed to see it.

I knew right where the damn thing had to be but I could not find it. It's a lesson I never forgot.
 
M

Mila

Senior Member
I think the Titanic was on the northern edge of the gulf stream
Well, Howells THE MAIDEN VOYAGE OF THE TITANIC— A METEOROLOGICAL PERSPECTIVE plotted sea temperatures measured by other vessels and stated that the Titanic was 150 miles north of the Gulf Steam. I would not have called 150 miles away "the edge". I've looked at satellite images of the Gulf Steam for 9 consecutive Aprils, and never the Gulf Stream was close to the wreck site. In June, July, maybe, but not in April.
 
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