MPY Found on Wreck


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Jamie Bryant

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Aug 30, 2003
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Just to clear something up. The French reported that after 'scratching' away at what was left of her name plate, the letters M,P&Y were found. Are these just lies and myths to sell switch theory books, or was something similar actually discovered.
JB
 

Mike Bull

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Dec 23, 2000
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The 1987 photo of the port bow that I have clearly shows the letters 'ITAN'. It was posted on here somewhere or other a while back, so I'm not sure who's the picture was/if I can re-post it. But anyway, beneath the crud, it clearly said, in part at least, 'Titanic'. No sign of any other alternative lettering.

Don't go believing all that Robin Gardiner ****.
 
Jul 9, 2000
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>>Are these just lies and myths to sell switch theory books, or was something similar actually discovered.<<

My bet would be the former. I've seen no such reports from any source, much less one that's first hand. Surely if such a discovery had been made, it would have been splashed all over the headlines.

Loud silence out there.
 

Mark Draper

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Aug 24, 2001
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Ken said he made out some of the letters on Titanic's stern saying the ship's home port Liverpool.

Are there any photos of the starboard side name plate? That area would be easier to see the ship's name, as there are no cables hanging off the ship to be a problem.
 

Mike Bull

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Not sure how much effort has gone into looking on that side- but anyways, the name was there on the port side, clearly shooting down another of Gardiner's ridiculous delusions.
 

John Knight

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Jun 4, 2004
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'I wonder if anyone noticed that the sequence of the alleged lettering is wrong? M,P,Y???

Try OlYMPic.'

LOL Well done Michael. This time the hoaxers have made themselves look really silly.
 
Jul 9, 2000
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Hoaxers tend to do that if anyone bothers to examine their claims closely.
wink.gif
 
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Jun 12, 2004
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Michael,

The conclusion illuminated through reasoning you've just presented can be ascertained without closely examining the claims. That was obvious. Either Gardiner or the hoaxer is sloppy and inefficient, incomplete, or he/they truly underestimates the readers' intelligence. *sigh* Why can't these individuals learn that he/they shouldn't underestimate anyone? They make fools out of themselves and yet they still continue to try and trick others for a buck.

By the way, that question was rhetorical, which means that I wasn't really asking, only making a statement.
 

Lee Gilliland

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Feb 14, 2003
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Sorry for being the voice of reason here, but these guys don't underestimate the reader's intelligence, they count on it. Please remember that the people on this board are self-selected by our propensity to research and precision as far as history is concerned. Most of the people buying this stuff are interested in nothing but a good exciting read - this is why they love conspiracy books. They're not looking for truth, thay're looking for entertainment.
 

Mike Bull

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...or in the case of 'The Ship That Never Sank', perhaps they were looking for something to wipe their little backsides on? ;-)
 
Jul 9, 2000
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>> but these guys don't underestimate the reader's intelligence, they count on it.<<

Or rather the lack of it or simply being uninformed. Take a look at out own little group and you find among us people who argue over the arrangments of portholes, the location of ladders/stairs, the plumbing and ventilation arrangements, hull plating layouts and the like, and not just with the Titanic and Olympic either.

How many people out there in the "Great Unwashed" know any ship or group of ships down to the smallest details like that?

Not very many I'm afraid.
 

Lee Gilliland

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If you sat down with the people likely to read this sort of conspiracy book and pointed out by by bit all the errors, most of them would inform you that that was too much work and anyway they weren't interested. You should try dealing with some of the Bermuda Triangle and Area 51 people who clutter up SF cons - they're pretty much the same people. They're not interested in the facts, and will get very angry when you point them out to them. They just want life to be a bit more mysterious and exciting, and a good conspiracy does that.
 
Jun 10, 1999
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Actually the video (still in my collection)..."Return to the Titanic" live from Paris, France (Westgate '87) shows the segmented footage of NAUTILE scraping (a brush can be seen in the upper left portion of the video screen) the rust away from the port bow plates. I can personally testify to seeing the faint outline of T I T A N...then the camera pans out. BTW, during the video the letters were highlighted for the viewer.

Jennifer Carter was a member of this particular RMSTI expedition and goes in-depth concerning this feat in her book "Titanic Adventure".

Michael Cundiff
USA
 
Jun 11, 2000
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I have to say, Lee is probably right. Conspiracies theories are a whole lot of fun, maybe not for people on this forum, but for others.

I have no idea whether Robin Gardiner actually believed his theory held water, but it really doesn't matter anyway. If he thought he was right, and he turns out to be wrong, with all this publicity - so what? What matters is the cumulative evidence in 2004, which would suggest that his theory is actually quite wrong. If only because, why on earth would the WSL go to such lengths for a ship that was underinsured? Could the WSL possibly have benefitted from the deliberate sinking of the Titanic? It seems very unlikely. We've been through this countless times and I think the simplest explanations apply. It was the Titanic; it sank; it's there two and a half miles down; it won't 'disappear' within the next 50 years, and it could be better explored if the funds were available, which they probably are not. People have to accept the way it is.
 
Jun 10, 1999
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The conspiracy theories of AREA 51 are of a purposeful nature...steer the general public in a different direction...all the while the US GOV'T is building bad a-s planes like the U2, F-117. RAPTOR, etc.

;-)

Michael Cundiff
USA
 
Jun 12, 2004
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But Lee,

Motivation on the readers' part doesn'ty necessarily reflect the motivation on the writer's part, and that is my (and Michael's) point. Why would these hoaxers write such material if they knew that most of the readers would know better? Would you buy a book filled with lies and myths, etc.? Maybe, but most likely not. The thing is: Do these hoaxers acknowledge in their books: "The information in this book is not based on truth whatsoever and are just myths amalgamated for your imaginative entertainment"? I haven't seen one with such acknowledgements. It is because of this that leads me to believe that most (if not all) of these hoaxers do underestimate the intelligence or knowledge level of the readers.

Also put yourself in the writer's position: Would you write and market a book in which the content was made of myths, lies, falsification, unproven theories, etc., even for entertainment, if you knew that the majority of the reading populace were to smirk and scorn it? Probably not. You'd know that you'd make very little (if any) money on it and gain a less-than-favorable reputation for doing so.

Why do you think so many myths and falsifications have survived throughout the past 90 years? because there are so many hoaxers out there who continue to push them and keep them alive. That could be why so many people have been misinformed - not for lack of information, but because of being fed wrong information.
 
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