Samuel Halpern
Member
He kept some of his officers in the dark about how bad things were. Just read what Lightoller, Lowe, and Pitman had to say. The only one who definitely knew was Boxhall, and he had to ask.
Mystery ship candidates
- Thread starter James23
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Cam Houseman
Member
Perhaps he was didn't want a panic so he told a select few, the fewer who knew less the fewer those would know, who knows
Jim Currie
Senior Member
Smith was told that Carpathia would get there at 4-30 am. He was allegedly giving that order three and a quarter hours before she did.
Actually, there were 39 souls in boat No. 8 - 35 ladies and 4 crew., but that is of no consequence.
If the lifeboats had been filled to capacity from the beginning, there was a decided possibility that at the very least, the death toll would have been 65 higher and it had nothing to do with the "breaking her back" nonsense and all to do with the method of slackening off the manila rope falls and a thing called "shock load". AB Jones was right:
"Senator NEWLANDS. Would there be any danger of the boats buckling?
Mr. JONES.: Oh, no, sir."
The Countess of Rothes shared the steering of boat 8 with her cousin Gladys Cherry.
Of Captain Smith's demeanour at the time she told the New York Herald:
"Captain Smith stood shoulder to shoulder to me as I got into the lifeboat an the last words to able seaman Tom Jones - ' Row straight for those ship lights over there; - leave your passengers on board of her and return as soon as you can,' Captain Smith's attitude was one of great calmness and courage, and I'm sure that he thought that then ship - whose lights we could plainly see - would pick us up and that our life boats would do double duty in ferrying passengers to the help that gleamed so near."
Lady Rothes also stated:
"Indeed I saw - we all saw - a ships lights not more than three miles away' Turning to Lord Rothes Lady Rothes said:- 'I am a fair judge of distance am I not?' He answered 'yes, you are."
Of the lights themselves, she said :
"We pulled steadily for the two masthead lights that showd brilliantly in the darkness. For a few minutes we saw the ships port light then it vanished and the masthead lights got dimmer on the hoeizon until they too, disappeared."
The
Cam Houseman
Member
A great example that Smith was not losing his capability, Jim
Samuel Halpern
Member
Irrationality has all sorts of looks.
Samuel Halpern
Member
Poor Pitman. He too thought the light he saw was about 3 miles away. But he also thought it was a lamp from one of the other lifeboats.
AB Thomas Jones who in charge of boat #8:
"He [Smith] told me to row for the light, and land the passengers and return to the ship. I pulled for the light, and I found that I could not get near the light, and I stood by for a little while. I wanted to return to the ship, but the ladies were frightened, and I had to carry out the captain's orders and pull for that light; so I did so. I pulled for about two hours, and then it started to get daybreak, and we lost the light; and then all of a sudden we saw the Carpathia coming, and we turned right back and made for the Carpathia."
They rowed for 2 hours and couldn't get any closer. Now why do you think that was?
A simple quote from one master mariner: "you cannot judge by a light at sea."
And by the way, regarding lifeboat occupancy, I suggest the following:
Jim Currie
Senior Member
Of course, you can. Moore was hiding something. He was pulling the wool over the eyes of those he knew he could waffle.
If you can see the horizon you can judge the distance of a light or lights. It is either on it, beyond it, or on the bit between you and the horizon - the sea surface. If you know your height of eye, you know the distance to the horizon and can use the wet bit like a "ruler".
Your eyes naturally focus on your own particular horizon and are drawn to anomalies 10 degrees below it. That is one of the first things a Lookout and budding OOW learns... to look slightly above the horizon - anything strange draws the eyes down.
A moving ship as described by Lady Rothes and Boxhall moves faster than an undermanned lifeboat.
If you are thinking "current"... forget it. If you had ever rowed one of these things in a current, across a current, against wind, or both you would know what I am talking about.
However, let's say you are correct.
If that lifeboat had been heading NW across a 1 knot+ southerly setting current and there had been a fresh wind from the north at the same time, she would have "crabbed her way to the westward and in a very short time, would have been up against the eastern edge of the pack ice. Not only that, but she would have been in clear sight of Mount Temple and her smaller companion who according to Moore, arrived shortly after Carpathia.
As for your recommendation? I can read and perfectly understand the same source so why would I bother?
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Samuel Halpern
Member
Perhaps an old sea dog can learn new tricks?
Cam Houseman
Member
I mean if you see a light potentially belonging to a steamer possibly only 10 miles away while you were on a sinking ship, I can see why he had hope
Jim Currie
Senior Member
I don't deal in ricks Sam," just the facts, man" as Joe Friday was often heard to say.
Samuel Halpern
Member
The boat was half empty. Given what he was told by Andrews, I would think that the priority would be to see that they load the boats to near capacity, thus saving as many lives as possible, and tell them to try and reach that steamer off their port bow, which apparently appeared to be within a few hours of rowing distance away. It just seems incredible to me, for Smith to tell those in #8 boat what he told them to do, unless he dismissed Andrew's opinion altogether and thought his ship would not really sink. It's called denial.
Arun Vajpey
Member
Exactly. By the time Lifeboat #8 was launched at 01:00 am, information about the Carpathia was sketchy at best. Also, there were 3 more boats already in the water. If they had followed Smith's directive and rowed for the light, lifeboats might have become even more scattered by the time the rescue ship arrived. I have always thought that Smith's order made no sense but then there are 'experts' who will continue to argue on this point just for the heck of it.
By doing what exactly?
Arun Vajpey
Member
Not if it has its head buried in the sand......or perhaps in this case, the sea.
As you say Sam, irrationality has its limits and in this case it was passed a long time ago.
Jim Currie
Senior Member
The priority was to see the boats launched safely. Loading them to full capacity was no guarantee of that and consequently, a guarantee that more would have been saved.
The method of launching a boat fully laden from maximum boat deck height above the water had very real risks. I have pointed this out before.
The weakest links in launching Titanic's lifeboats were the individual manila rope falls at each end. If these were slackened off unevenly or with a jerking motion, one end of the boat would tilt downward. if they jerked or suddenly jammed, a shock load was imposed into the rope which would exceed the SWL and cause it to break, tipping everyone and everything out of it. The value in tons of shock load was directly proportional to the weight of the contents. However, rather than go through it all again, I refer you to my post No.8 in
Purpose of launching the lifeboats halffilled
- Thread starterAndrea Cranford
- Start dateDec 9, 2010
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George Jacub
Member
New York Sun, May 2, 1912 Page 4
PASSED THE SINKING TITANIC
Kura, Believed the Mysterious Boat, Reaches Port
Special Cable Dispatch to The Sun
Algiers, May 1. The mysterious steamer which was in the vicinity of the Titanic when she foundered is believed to have been the cargo boat, Kura, from New York for Algiers, which arrived here to-day.
The Kura left New York on April 13. She has no wireless apparatus. The captain reports that he encountered icebergs and a fog on the night that the Titanic was wrecked, but he only learned of the disaster last night.
