Mystery ship candidates

Seumas said:
Go just over half way down the page below and read the lengthy section entitled "The Disappearing Boatswain". I think you will find it deeply interesting and Dr Lee explains his reasoning in painstaking detail, provides helpful graphics and provides a source at every step:
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I think Brad Payne also has done a good article about the supposed fate of Bo'sun Alfred Nichols and his men. I also believe that it is a myth they Nichols and his 6 men (whose identities only Nichols could have known) died trying to open a gangway door on D-deck. The actual point is that after Lightoller gave the order to Nichols at 01:05 am, the two men did not meet again and since the Second Officer did not know the identities of the 6 men who went down with Nichols, he could not have been any wiser if one or more of them had passed him in the next hour and a bit.

I believe that Nichols decided that it was not practical to use gangway doors for loading lifeboats and returned to the boat deck but by then Lightoller had gone down to A-deck for his shenanigans with Lifeboat #4. By then the boat deck was getting more and more crowded and so it was easy for the two men to miss each other. I believe that Nichols gave James Johnstone that 'star tip. after he returned to the boat deck and at around 01:30 am. Also Fireman Fred Barrett reported meeting Nichols as he arrived in the vicinity of Lifeboat #13 at almost 01:40 am. Barrett said that Nichols told him to get into the bat and 'pull an oar'.
 
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Jim Currie said:
You would have a problem seeing it on that scale, Cam. you would need to be well back from the target.
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I understand, although the best I could do would to show a picture of the baseboard of the Gangway in 1986, and I doubt that's what we need.

We can't exactly say where Dr. Lee saw the buckle, he only provided the picture that I sent earlier
1619553504432
 
Seumas said:
Sure thing.

Scroll three quarters of the way down until you come to the pic of the gangway door on the wreck. You'll find the relevant bit there. Here's the address again in case you need it - http://www.paullee.com/titanic/belowdecks.php

I'm not going to quote the whole article because I have a great a dislike of people who copy and paste entire articles (complete with graphics) and put them in ET posts. It's not the done thing in my opinion.
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I've actually already read this twice, just remembered.
 
Look at the available evidence without blinkers, you will see that there were at least 7 mystery ships in the area between 11-30 pm and 3-30 am the next morning.
1. Boxhall's moving ship.
2. Rostron's west-bound ship.
3. Lord's nearby ship which Stone claimed sailed away
4. Groves' twin steaming light ship which disappeared 10 minutes after Lord's nearby ship stopped.
5. Stewart's yellow funnel ship which stopped against the ice to the southward.
6. Moore's southward sailing sailing ship.
7. Moore's small cargo ship which crossed his bow heading SE. ward.

However, note that there were no moving ships on the eastern side of the ice barrier that night and only two of the above list were too late on the scene to be contenders. There was another contender, but you can all do the ground work yourselves or buy my book if it ever gets printed.
 
Jim Currie said:
Look at the available evidence without blinkers, you will see that there were at least 7 mystery ships in the area between 11-30 pm and 3-30 am the next morning.
1. Boxhall's moving ship.
2. Rostron's west-bound ship.
3. Lord's nearby ship which Stone claimed sailed away
4. Groves' twin steaming light ship which disappeared 10 minutes after Lord's nearby ship stopped.
5. Stewart's yellow funnel ship which stopped against the ice to the southward.
6. Moore's southward sailing sailing ship.
7. Moore's small cargo ship which crossed his bow heading SE. ward.

However, note that there were no moving ships on the eastern side of the ice barrier that night and only two of the above list were too late on the scene to be contenders. There was another contender, but you can all do the ground work yourselves or buy my book if it ever gets printed.
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Your only 109 years too late Jim. In early 1913, Albert Moulton Foweraker published an analysis of the Californian affair based on his own research into the reported events, and his personal correspondence with Captain Stanley Lord. Foweraker believed there were seven mystery ships about, not counting the Californian, Titanic, Carpathia, Mount Temple, Frankfurt and Almerian that he had identified on his chart.
 
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Samuel Halpern said:
Your only 109 years too late Jim. In early 1913, Albert Moulton Foweraker published an analysis of the Californian affair based on his own research into the reported events, and his personal correspondence with Captain Stanley Lord. Foweraker believed there were seven mystery ships about, not counting the Californian, Titanic, Carpathia, Mount Temple, Frankfurt and Almerian that he had identified on his chart.
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You are never too late or too old to learn. Sam... Happy New Year! ;)
 
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One time I heared in a documentary that the light on the horizen was a ilegel seal fishing ship that did not go to titanics aid due to there illegal fishing...what has humanity come to?
 
Brody Tarrant said:
One time I heared in a documentary that the light on the horizen was a ilegel seal fishing ship that did not go to titanics aid due to there illegal fishing...what has humanity come to?
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That story was proven to be completely untrue decades ago.

The ship in question was called the Samson but it can be proved that she was tied up in Iceland at the time of the Titanic's sinking.

If you want to learn more, Paul Lee and Sam Halpern have written excellent books that explain everything and destroy a lot of myths in the process.
 
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Seumas said:
That story was proven to be completely untrue decades ago.

The ship in question was called the Samson but it can be proved that she was tied up in Iceland at the time of the Titanic's sinking.

If you want to learn more, Paul Lee and Sam Halpern have written excellent books that explain everything and destroy a lot of myths in the process.
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Okay thank you for this I will make sure to check out the work.
 
Brody Tarrant said:
Okay thank you for this I will make sure to check out the work.
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Hi Brody,
There is an alternative story somewhere about two Investigators from New York who went to the port of Isafjordhur in Iceland to check out the Samson story. They spoke to locals who stated that Samson was there on April 6 and that her Owners had booked a berth for her return in late April, but she arrived back there later than planned.
However, we have the makings of half a story.

Samson was a steam vessel but was also sail-rigged. Her combined speed with a brisk wind would have been over 8 knots. If she followed the Labrador current, then she could realistically have arrived beside the Californian late on April 14. So theoretically the nearby ship could have been the Samson, but where did she go if it was her?

Consider the evidence of Captain Moore - the Mount temple's "schooner" which he had to make way for when he was getting very near to the western side of the ice barrier. If the Samson story was true, and she wanted to keep a low profile then she would have proceeded under sail and put out her white steaming light.
There was most certainly a mysterious sailing ship in the vicinity and it was heading in the direction of Cape Hatteras, but if Samson was back in Iceland before the end of April, that sailing ship was not her.
 
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Thank you for this info I have never heard someone go into so much debth about the Samson story before, but one question where did you here all of this beacuse if it is a book or somthing like that I would very much so want to check it out.
 
The Sampson wasn't there and nobody has ever produced a jot of proof that she was not in Iceland in April 14/15 1912.

Even the notorious Leslie Harrison did not consider the Sampson a viable candidate.
 
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Seumas said:
Even the notorious Leslie Harrison did not consider the Sampson a viable candidate.
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And that's really saying something. Harrison's book A Titanic Myth goes to ridiculous lengths to try and "prove" that there was some sort of mystery ship between the Titanic and Californian.
 
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