Mystery Ship made simple

>>What are the odds that there was a third ship between them?<<

<shrug> Really no way of knowing. It could have been just about anything from a Cod Banker (As one of the crew would later speculate) to Jupiter rising in the east, to everybody's vivid imagination. While it wouldn't add to or take away from questions of the Californian's responsibility, if there was somebody in between, I'd like to know who it was. If there wasn't anybody in between, then there's nothing to talk about.

>>I know it's been speculated to be a illegal fishing trawler etc but I just don't believe that one.<<

Actually, that particular theory centered around the Samson which was said to be hunting for seals illegally. There are so many problems with this story that even Leslie Harrison, Captain Lord's most devoted defender, rightly dismissed it as a fairy tale. If you go HERE and scroll down the frameset on the side, just click on SAMSON for the details. As thoroughly as this one has been nuked, you'd have a real problem finding any competant researcher or historian on either side of this thorny issue who buys it.

>>The science is just a way of judging how far away from each other they were and if the California could have saved them. <<

Actually, whether or not the Californian could have saved anybody is a highly questionable proposition no matter how close the ships were. You can read two articles which address this question The Californian Incident, A Reality Check
and

Californian to the Rescue!

web.archive.org
 
"the odds are slim to none that they weren't seeing each other"

I think I would have to agree with that. Whilst I am open to persuasion on the idea of a 'mystery ship' between the Californian and Titanic it just seems a bit unlikely to me.

If, for example, there was a 'mystery ship' between the two with a compliment of, say, 40 crew members, you would have to think that at least one of these crew would have told a wife/friend/family member etc., of what they had witnessed, when they returned to dry land.

Unless the 'mystery ship' itself struck an iceberg or had another mishap and sank with all hands.

Is there any record of a ship that was in the North Atlantic in April 1912, but never reached its destination port?

All the Best,
John.
 
I would like a response to this question...What other ships besides Titanic and the Carpathia fired rockets that night? I personally think this answers alot of questions as to what the Californian saw that night.

Matthew Baker
 
Welcome Matthew

You make a very cogent point - the problems that get much discussed are, for a start, the very definition of rockets, and how far up they go to become rockets. Lesley Harrison, author of " A Titanic Myth " made much of the different colours and climbing heights - and many have taken up his intial arguments and developed them - see many of the articles by Senan Molony on this web-site for example.

Then - you have the question of why a ship might fire rockets or flares at night. Harrison identified many a line that used such items for inter-ship identification - they were not just used for distress signalling.

Thus far, as I understand it, no-one has yet put forward the name of a ship that could have been firing rockets in that location on that night at that time. The suggestion that some lines had ships that did fire rockets for identification, for example, falls down on the fact that no-one has yet demonstrated that any ship from any of those lines was in the vicinity that night - let alone a reason for why she might have done so.

Its all very well to say that, to take an absurd example, HMS Dreadnought fired flares at night to identify herself to other vessels if you cannot demonstrate that HMS Dreadnought could possibly have been there, and had reason to fire off rockets. I have yet to see any ship steam along firing rockets all night every night at five minute intervals and I live next to a busy estuary with ships going up and down at all hours of the day and night.

Anyway, welcome again,

Warmest regards

dave
 
Hi Paul,

I *think* Leslie Reade scoured Lloyd's list just as you propose to in TSTSS. I could be wrong, it's been a few years since I read it. IIRC, he didn't find a single plausible candidate.

Cheers

Paul
 
"I have yet to see any ship steam along firing rockets all night every night at five minute intervals and I live next to a busy estuary with ships going up and down at all hours of the day and night. "
But, surely, nobody would be doing such a thing, in this day and age with so many alternatives?
 
Hi Paul,
Having spent an enjoyable three hours at the Guildhall library this afternoon, if Leslie Reade did scour the Lloyd's List, then he must have had the patience of a saint! Finding anything would be a tough undertaking, and would be more suited towards some automated computer based processing to analyse the lists - not an easy task when the 1912 records are on microfiche!

I did find a few interesting Titanic related tidbits and I'll post them when I go through my notes!

With best wishes

Paul

 
Once again, I spent a very tedious few hours trudging through trigonometry to come up with some numbers.

I assumed that the 7.30pm pole star sighting was correct. I also assumed that, at the time of the collision, the Californian was 10 miles due north of the Titanic, approx. 41 degrees 57 degrees north, and stopped at 41 degrees 58 N at 10.21.

Assuming that the total distance, at a speed of 13 knots from the 10.21 position, we can work out that a total of 36.8 miles should have been covered. To get to the required lattitude would require a deviation (either through poor navigation, drift or incompetent handling) to port of about 11 degrees. I find it hard to believe that this wasn't noticed! One idea I had was that Captain Lord decided to steam south to avoid the ice field, but conveniently didn't let anyone on shore known about this, to prevent the californian-Titanic distance be shortened. But, as with most theories, theres no evidence at all to support this.

Cheers

Paul

 

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