Name of Pilot Boat: Southampton or Isle of Wight


Harland Duzen

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A bit of a trivial question but I need to confirm /find out....

Does anyone know the name of this pilot boat (If it is a pilot boat), where George Bowyer disembark aboard the Titanic and if so, did this boat came from Southampton or the Isle of wright?


I heard a rumour the boat's called the ''Greencastle Ireland'' but I not sure...
4ce9502dbbc500aca849a8b9f98ef12d.jpg

Photo (Above) taken from Titanic Photographs. Link: http://www.titanicphotographs.com/Browne/indexfatherbrowne.html

I writing something tracing her path though the Solent so I need to be sure. If anyone knows, Thanks!


Note: I accidentally orginal wrote this as a private conservation so don't get confused if you receive a second ''inbox'' or ''alert''.
 

Harland Duzen

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Don't know the name but the pilot boat came from the Isle of Wight.
Thanks Ioannis Georgiou. Do you by know by chance where from the Isle Of Wright it came from? If not, that' okay.

I found the (Possible) name for the pilot boat on the description of the picture on Google images which is not the best source...
 

Jim Currie

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There would have been a number of Pilot Cutters offering service to Trinity House at that time. The Pilot himself needed to be licensed but the boats were often privately owned and vied for business from local Trinity House Pilots. Perhaps a search of Trinity House records might come up with the answer?
 
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Jim Currie

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Incidentally, the photograph shows a yawl. The wake looks as if Titanic 'raced' her. By that, I mean that the rules dictated that a vessel under power should keep clear of one under sail. The wake shows that Titanic did not stop for that vessel; saw her on the port bow, crossing ahead from port to starboard and instead of giving way, altered course to starboard and crossed ahead of the sailing vessel. Obviously because the sailing vessel was much slower. Had there been sea-room, Titanic would have kept clear by altering to port and going round the stern of the sailing boat.
The wake tell me that sailing vessel was not a Pilot vessel because ships stop for a pilot vessel.
 
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The photograph was taken after pilot Bowyer left the ship with a small rowboat (on the starboard side) which was picked up by the ketch. The pilot boats had their identification on the sails as in this image which was taken by Brown looking aft.
 

Harland Duzen

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Incidentally, the photograph shows a yawl. The wake looks as if Titanic 'raced' her. By that, I mean that the rules dictated that a vessel under power should keep clear of one under sail. The wake shows that Titanic did not stop for that vessel; saw her on the port bow, crossing ahead from port to starboard and instead of giving way, altered course to starboard and crossed ahead of the sailing vessel. Obviously because the sailing vessel was much slower. Had there been sea-room, Titanic would have kept clear by altering to port and going round the stern of the sailing boat.
The wake tell me that sailing vessel was not a Pilot vessel because ships stop for a pilot vessel.
So your suggesting Jim Currie that the Yawl is NOT the Pilot boat?

The photograph was taken after pilot Bowyer left the ship with a small rowboat (on the starboard side) which was picked up by the ketch. The pilot boats had their identification on the sails as in this image which was taken by Brown looking aft.
So from what your saying Ioannis Georgiou is that the photo shows the ''ketch'' picking up the pilot boat after leaving Titanic rather than waiting to sail up alongside Titanic (as I first thought). Instead:

1) The Titanic stops briefly and George Bowyer leaves in a Rowing Boat.

2) After rowing clear of Titanic's Propeller's the ship speeds on to Cherbourg while the Rowing Boat rows a long curve across the stern towards the Ketch.

3) As seen in the Photo, The Ketch (having picked up the boat or waiting for it as it cross Titanic's stern turns around back to Southampton.

I never notice this image was taken from Titanic's Port Side looking aft , I aways though it was taken from her Starboard looking forward. Now I noticed the outline of the A deck promenade and the wake, it's obvious!

(Face palm)

Anyway, would it have looked like this (I assumed the Rowing Boat left by the Forward 3rd Class Gangway on E-Deck as it's lowest to the waterline). Sorry if the picture's too big, I can;t minimise it.
Screen Shot 2017-05-13 at 21.37.19.png


Sorry If I misunderstood or misinterpreted it.
 
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So from what your saying Ioannis Georgiou is that the photo shows the ''ketch'' picking up the pilot boat
The ketch is the pilot boat, the rowing boat was send over to Titanic taking off pilot Bowyer.

after leaving Titanic rather than waiting to sail up alongside Titanic (as I first thought). Instead:

1) The Titanic stops briefly and George Bowyer leaves in a Rowing Boat.

2) After rowing clear of Titanic's Propeller's the ship speeds on to Cherbourg while the Rowing Boat rows a long curve across the stern towards the Ketch.
It was more that the rowing boat was picked up by the Ketch.


3) As seen in the Photo, The Ketch (having picked up the boat or waiting for it as it cross Titanic's stern turns around back to Southampton.
The rowing boat might be still somewhere around Titanic's starboard side.

I never notice this image was taken from Titanic's Port Side looking aft , I aways though it was taken from her Starboard looking forward. Now I noticed the outline of the A deck promenade and the wake, it's obvious!
The lifeboat behind the two men is No. 10 which was aft on the port side.
 

Harland Duzen

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So everything is correct except in the photo, the rowing boat is still rowing clear of Titanic and nowhere near her stern at the moment.

Thank you Ioannis Georgiou and Jim Currie for helping me map the route (and telling me which way the photo was taken), I very grateful.
 

Dave Gittins

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Francis Browne captioned the photo 'The pilot boat coming to take the pilot.' It's certainly the pilot boat, not just a passing vessel.
To summon the boat, you cried, "Howdy, yawl!"
 

Harland Duzen

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It was Francis Browne caption that made me the Ketch / Yawl was the pickup boat instead of a rowing boat. Just goes to show not every passenger was a Titanic or nautical expert!
 

Georges Guay

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The photograph rather shows a Ketch as the mizzen mast is «forward» of her rudder stock (post). A Yawl has its mizzen mast behind the rudder post. We can also perceive the steam vessel propeller(s) «astern» wash. She was most probably maneuvering to get as little headway as would be needed for a delicate pilot change via a frail row boat!
4ce95010.jpg
 
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Georges Guay

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Here is a picture that gives a good idea of the risks that a pilot had to expect! Even today, pilot embarkations still a delicate and dangerous operation…

pilote10.jpg
 

Harland Duzen

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Thanks again Georges G. for the confirming the ketch and for noticing the wash from the propellers.
 
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Jim Currie

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So your suggesting Jim Currie that the Yawl is NOT the Pilot boat?

First: Georges is correct..it is a Yawl, not a ketch. However I based my observations of the wake of the Titanic. The wake tells me that the altered course to starboard when the yawl was ahead of her. The wavelets tell me that the sailing boat was on the starboard tack... perhaps even a little 'free'. The only alternative is that Titanic altered round the object seen almost right astern of her or that it was a way point then resumed her original heading. Otherwise, why would she have bothered to alter her course at all. If the Pilot mother vessel was originally right ahead then all that was needed was for Titanic to slow down and almost stop with the pilot dingy and mother vessel both on her starboard side and affording a lee for disembarkation of the pilot in his wee row boat? Just some thoughts. Look here:
Yawl.jpg
 

Harland Duzen

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Jim Currie, Georges G stated it IS a Ketch...

Georges G: ''The photograph rather shows a Ketch as the mizzen mast is «forward» of her rudder stock (post).''

In terms of why she's might have turned to Starboard, much like what caused the Olympic / Hawke collision was that the Olympic was trying to prevent running aground in the Solent shallow banks.

As this map from google shows, exiting the Solent from it's Eastern Side isn't easy for a 46,000 ton ship and Titanic likely turned to Starboard so not to get stuck. The Ketch on the other hand could easily go though the shallows and so wasn't going have any problems.
IMG_3197.jpg

Interesting fact: when the Carrack Mary Rose turned and then capsized in the Solent in 1545, one reason for this was the ship turning to avoid crashing into the Spitbank Sandbank.
 

Jim Currie

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True, Martin, but if that is the Pilot "mother ship" then before the turn came, Titanic had a Pilot on board.

I am curious as to the large rectangular shape astern of Titanic. At that time, she should have been heading southward toward toward Cherbourg.
 

Georges Guay

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titani15.jpg

Just to give an idea of what would’ve been a pilot disembarkation maneuver. The pilot assuming the conduct of the vessel for the safety of the navigation, spot the Ketch Pilot Boat. He reduces the speed to bare steerageway. He then performs the first stage of a Williamson Turn by altering the head first to Stb’d and afterward to Port. The Port turn is made by clutching the Port propeller Astern. The purpose is to kill the speed to Dead Stop and to provide a Leeward Side shelter to the Row Pilot Boat. The pilot disembarkation must have been made by a Stb’d shell side door and a short Jacob’s ladder. Pilot Away! Lower the Pilot Flag, Salute & Bon Voyage…
 

Harland Duzen

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True, Martin, but if that is the Pilot "mother ship" then before the turn came, Titanic had a Pilot on board.

I am curious as to the large rectangular shape astern of Titanic. At that time, she should have been heading southward toward toward Cherbourg.
That's one of several forts dotted along the Solent which were meant to act as defences.

Solent Forts - Wikipedia

This picture shows just a few.
SolentFort.gif
 

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