Name of Pilot Boat: Southampton or Isle of Wight

H

Harland Duzen

Member
Titanic's fictional twin the ''Titan'' certainly had a Sail Area! I let myself out...
Titan

How the ''Titan'' would have appeared in Morgan Robertson ''Futility'' or ''Wreck Of The Titan'' (1898).
 
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Samuel Halpern

Samuel Halpern

Member
However, I think that Capt. Smith was very cooperative and an easy going person. Two qualities needed to assure a calm and serine bridge team work management and endeavor.
Too easy going perhaps? Here is the exact exchange of words between Smith and Bowyer in the seconds before Hawke struck Olympic:
Captain Smith: “I do not believe he will go under our stern Bowyer.”
Bowyer: “If she is going to strike let me know in time to put our helm hard-aport.”
Smith did not reply immediately, and a few seconds later Bowyer asks: “Is she going to strike us or not, sir?”
Smith: “Yes Bowyer, she is going to strike us in the stern.”
Bowyer calls out: “Hard-aport!” and helmsman QM Albert Haines just manages to get Olympic’s wheel over hard to his right when Hawke struck.

(This comes from trial transcripts.)
 
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Georges Guay

Georges Guay

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Titanic's fictional twin the ''Titan'' certainly had a Sail Area! I let myself out...
How the ''Titan'' would have appeared in [bcolor=rgb(252, 252, 255)]Morgan Robertson[/bcolor] ''Futility'' or ''Wreck Of The Titan'' (1898).

End sails like the aft Spanker or the fore Jib would be very useful in case of an engine breakdown in rough seas. Bringing a vessel abeam of the set of the wind is not something a seaman would wish. Rigging the Spanker would bring the bow to the windward side thus the Jib to the leeward side. To get the bow to a secure sea motion comfort tack degree angle of say 35°, the Spanker was the sail to rig. Fishing boats still carry that sail for the same purpose…
 
Georges Guay

Georges Guay

Member
Too easy going perhaps? Here is the exact exchange of words between Smith and Bowyer in the seconds before Hawke struck Olympic:
Captain Smith: “I do not believe he will go under our stern Bowyer.”
Bowyer: “If she is going to strike let me know in time to put our helm hard-aport.”
Smith did not reply immediately, and a few seconds later Bowyer asks: “Is she going to strike us or not, sir?”
Smith: “Yes Bowyer, she is going to strike us in the stern.”
Bowyer calls out: “Hard-aport!” and helmsman QM Albert Haines just manages to get Olympic’s wheel over hard to his right when Hawke struck.

(This comes from trial transcripts.)

Capt. Smith had «Some Nerve» we could say !!! Steaming full blast to a known icefield in the middle of the night needed quite «Some Nerve» as well !!! :eek:

I just cannot imagine how Mate Murdoch felt on his watch knowing what he knew! I think I would’ve simulate some Heart Attack to make sure Capt. Smith would hit the berg himself!!!
 
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Jim Currie

Jim Currie

Senior Member
Not only had Bower to contend with the wind resistance caused by Titanic's four massive funnels but he also had to deal with the effect of the constantly changing tidal steams, some of which had spring rates of 3.5 knots.

Captain Smith had many years experience of taking ships in and out of Southampton. He would probably have known these waters as well as did Bower. In fact, many Liner Captains held Pilotage Licences for the ports they regularly sailed to and from in the UK. Smith was also an RN reserve and was very familiar with the situation on board the bridge of a British warship. Because of the foregoing, he would have been very relaxed indeed and his demeanor would have very little if anything to do with a careless or cavalier attitude.

That exchange between Bower and Smith tells me a lot about the man Bower and about Smith's knowledge of the supreme attitude of superior confidence that prevailed on the bridges of British warships then and for very many years thereafter.
Perhaps the little pause between Bower's question and Smith's answer was during the time a bearing of the approaching warship was being taken. That is the only way Smith could have been sure there was going to be a collision.

What brings you to believe that Smith charged into a known ice-field in the middle of the night, Georges? Where is the incontrovertible proof that he did so?

Here's a question for you Georges. It is on the subject of sail assisted passage.
Did you know that back in the 80's, a Le Tourneau Self Elevating, 3 leg drill barge sailed across the Atlantic without tugs and did so using her own thrusters assisted by a giant tri-sail set between he fore-leg and her stern legs?
here she is... the Charles Rowan. My Company prepared the ocean passage

Charles Rowan
 
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Rob Lawes

Rob Lawes

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That is some journey. I worked on a couple of jack up barges in the Severn channel before I joined the RN and I wouldn't sail one to Sharpness let alone across the pond.

How long did the crossing take Jim?
 
Jim Currie

Jim Currie

Senior Member
Long time ago now, Rob, but I think it was about 45 days. Can you remember the names of the barges? Most of the barges I located, towed or surveyed were served out of Clydebank, Great Yarmouth, Aberdeen, Lerwick and Tavanger. Although I did work for a while in the Morcambe Field in the northen Irish Sea.
 
A

Aaron_2016

Guest
Would the photographer have taken several photos during that hour? Perhaps the photo of the S-turns was taken before the pilot left the ship?


Turns


.
 
Rob Lawes

Rob Lawes

Member
Long time ago now, Rob, but I think it was about 45 days. Can you remember the names of the barges?.

Is back in 92/93. I think our barges were mostly re-named after senior managers wives but not all. It was during the construction of the second severn crossing.

We had:

Lisa A - Jack up barge with a huge crane to lift the bridge supports.

Karlissa A and Karlissa B - 6 legged jack up barges that mixed and delivered concrete.

J Robertson - A big jack up barge with accommodation, workshops and general stuff.

Thames - A little 4 leg jack up that did general work.

There was another one the size of Thames but I can't remember its name.
 
Jim Currie

Jim Currie

Senior Member
Lisa A was upgraded in 2006. These were hydraulic leg barges. If I remember...6' stoke and took ages to elevate to requires air gap. An absolute b....r when they got out of phase. Happy days? Lol
 
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Samuel Halpern

Samuel Halpern

Member
Perhaps the little pause between Bower's question and Smith's answer was during the time a bearing of the approaching warship was being taken. That is the only way Smith could have been sure there was going to be a collision.
Prior to all that the Hawke and Olympic were on what appeared to be parallel courses. Smith was out on the starboard wing. Bowyer was by the helmsman on the forward part of the bridge. It was soon after Olympic steadied on her course having turned the West Bramble buoy and her engines were ordered to full ahead again. (The port engine having been going full astern while rounding the buoy with the turbine disconnected.) The Olympic was accelerating at the time. According to Smith's testimony:

"For an appreciable time we seemed to run about even speed some little time. Then we gathered speed , drew ahead a little, or she dropped astern...She seemed to drop astern, or, in other words, we gained on her in speed, and immediately after her bow came to port, as if she had starboarded, she turned very quickly, and struck us on the quarter-apparently to me, a right-angled blow almost."..."When she commenced to fall in, I called out to the pilot that 'He is starboarding and he is going to hit us.' "

Bowyer's account of the exchange between himself and Smith is what I quoted in my previous post above.

When Hawke first started to turn in, Smith thought that she was being maneuvered to go under Olympic's stern. Hawkes stem was in line with Olympic's amidships point between the 2nd and 3rd funnels when she was seen to first start to turn in. According to Smith, "I thought they were going under our stern, when they had gone far enough astern and had the distance between us to come round under starboard helm, that was my idea...my idea was that the captain had dropped back as far as he required and had his distance between us, and knew just what his ship could do and could come round under my stern."

He was wrong, but he left it all to Bowyer, who could not see what was happening from where he stood, to give orders.
 
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Doug Criner

Doug Criner

Member
The wake looks as if Titanic 'raced' her. By that, I mean that the rules dictated that a vessel under power should keep clear of one under sail. The wake shows that Titanic did not stop for that vessel;
The rules of the road make a powered vessel burdened when encountering a sailing vessel. This makes sense when they are in a crossing situation and both able to freely maneuver. But, when a 100,000-ton aircraft carrier (or probably the Titanic) comes into a port, it is common for small sailboats to flit around all over the place. In practice, then, the rules of the road are suspended.

A couple of years ago, the USS Theodore Roosevelt, a nuclear-powered carrier, entered the Solent for a scheduled port visit. The local authorities issued instructions in advance prohibiting any boat or ship from approaching within a certain number of meters of the carrier. So, in essence, all vessels, other than the carrier were burdened.
 
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