Anthony Cunningham
Member
A documentary on Chanel Four last night asserted that footage from the Nazi propaganda movie 'Titanic' was later recycled in A Night to Remember. I wasn't aware of this. Any thoughts?
Nazi Titanic
- Thread starter Anthony Cunningham
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Bob Godfrey
Member
Yes, they did use some of the German footage but not much. Certainly a brief scene immediately after the collision, when water is seen bursting into a boiler room.
Evgueni Mlodik
Member
I was disappointed, too little time for such a fascinating story. Also, the film is readily available in England if one wants to import the DVD from the US, Germany or Italy.
Ioannis Georgiou
Member
There are also the scenes from Titanic at sea which were also taken from the German movie. It is the scene shortly before Captain Smith got the Ice warning while in the dining room. Some other movies also use some Titanic shots from the German movie, mainly the collision. (I think the TV version of A Night to remember did so and another one.)
Just for some background, does anybody know why the Nazis actually used the Titanic for propaganda in the first place? If Joseph Goebbels was behind it then he was quite a shrewd, cunning operator and no doubt would have had some scheme for it being successful as propaganda, but the Titanic sinking was almost 30 years old by the time war broke out.
Using disasters like that would have allowed the Allies to use more modern instances such as the Hindenburg....
Cheers,
Adam.
Using disasters like that would have allowed the Allies to use more modern instances such as the Hindenburg....
Cheers,
Adam.
Bob Godfrey
Member
As with James Cameron's film, the Titanic served as a exciting backdrop for a fictionalised human drama. For Cameron that was the romance of Jack and Rose, for the Germans it was an opportunity to contrast the national characteristics of the Anglo-American characters (greed, duplicity, incompetence) with those of the fictional 'good officer' who displays nobility and selfless dedication to duty. And he of course was German! OK, the events in question happened 30 years in the past, but the propaganda message was that the leopards' spots remain unchanged.
John Lynott
Member
Achtt! For you, Tommy, the voyage is over!!!
Yes the documentary has just been shown over here as well, it was definitely a big deal at the time for both the German people (it had an astromical budget for its day) and more particularly for the propaganda machine and the man behind it, Josef Goebbels. It was seen not only as a propaganda 'ace' but also German's opportunity to show that it could match it with Hollywood.
David Moran
Member
Hiya, chums
I did a lot of work on Nazi propaganda a few years ago when I was with the Open University. Fascinating stuff, isn't it ?
You are quite correct, Adam, that this film was a big budget project, but you might be interested to know that it was not the only such project consuming vast funds and men at this time, when the regime was under immense, and increasing, pressure. For example, in 1943 UFA released Munchhausen, starring a huge star of the time, Hans Albers. This film actually eclipses the Terry Gilliam film for grandeur, in my opinion, and yet one carefully angled to avoid any mention of Nazi ideology, the better to appeal not to foreign audiences but to internal German viewers. At least that one's watchable - don't get me started on what Riefenstahl was doing...
Anyway, this was Goebbels's conviction - that attempts to ram Nazi messages down the throats of the viewing public would lead to box-office disaster, a conviction he had come to early in his role of cinematic mastermind when openly Nazi sympathetic films such as SA Mann Brandt had stiffed at the box-office even as Hitler was coming to power. So when he makes huge budgeted films such as Titanic or the even more ridiculous Kolberg, wherein troops were pulled from the front line and stuck in Napoleonic uniforms to recreate huge cavalry charges, what he is actually attempting to do is not directly compete with Hollywood movies at the box-office - it's not like Gone With the Wind or The Wizard of Oz are going to open in Vienna after all, and as for Casablanca... - he's trying to get domestic audiences to go to the cinema in the hope
(a) that they'll think that if the regime can produce big movies, then it must all be working out in reality and not ask awkward questions
(b) forget the increasing amount of rubble and bombs going off back out in the real world
(c) perhaps buy into the idea that their husbands, sons and brothers are dying for a reason, albeit as in Munchhausen, for very obscure ones, and that in time they might themselves have to make that sacrifice to make a "better", Fuhrer defined, future.
Now, it is interesting that in the film Ismay is very much a Fuhrerprinzip orientated chap - his vision uber alles. One wonders if, and at what point in production if he did, Goebbels noticed that ? Could that have been an underlying reason for the director's demise ?
PS - kudos to whoever came up with this documentary that they managed to link " Titanic" with "Nazi". Now, if only they had been able to work in "UFOs" or "Sharks" it'd never be off Discovery channels...
Hey David,
Many thanks for the information and an excellent summary there.....interested to hear you have studied through Open Universities as i'm doing the same thing now! (Albeit media and communications).
Don't quote me on this but I seem to recall the documentary saying that the film had a budget of 400 million reichsmarks, the equivalent of 180 million US dollars? Can you verify that?
Whatever the case I know the film was a huge gamble as many Germans were suffering at the time and had no money, and yet Goebbels and his propaganda ministry managed to find many millions of dollars to invest in a film for the sake of propaganda...!
Many thanks for the information and an excellent summary there.....interested to hear you have studied through Open Universities as i'm doing the same thing now! (Albeit media and communications).
Don't quote me on this but I seem to recall the documentary saying that the film had a budget of 400 million reichsmarks, the equivalent of 180 million US dollars? Can you verify that?
Whatever the case I know the film was a huge gamble as many Germans were suffering at the time and had no money, and yet Goebbels and his propaganda ministry managed to find many millions of dollars to invest in a film for the sake of propaganda...!
Sandy McLendon
Member
Adam - that budget figure doesn't sound right. For that kind of money in 1943, you could have had Harland & Wolff rebuild the ship from the original plans, plus a few copies to use in case the first one didn't sink just right.
Bob Godfrey
Member
180 million US dollars? I think you might have a couple of noughts too many there, Adam. Back then the Hollywood epic Gone With the Wind was made for under $4 million.
Bob Godfrey
Member
Looks like I guessed right about those two extra noughts. Googling reveals a production budget of 4 million Reichsmarks for the 1943 Titanic - that would have been around US$1.5 million.
