New Information on Titanic: What's there left to say?


Harland Duzen

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I’ve thought about this actually. There’s over 2,208 ways to tell the story, but eventually, we will run out of new things to find out. It’s sad haha.

Interestingly out of the 712 survivors (or there about) what number of them do we know of their accounts of the voyage and sinking?

Many of the 3rd Class Passengers were just allowed to walk off and be treated, and they could tell us more than we know like the possible heating problem*.

*Shelley' irritation at the heating and cabins (in my opinion) was focused on heavy in "On A Sea Of Glass"
 

B-rad

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Perhaps there was a serious problem with the heating and danger that the heating plant might overheat and explode as the temperatures were building up inside and not circulating to the other rooms, which may have kept Thomas Andrews busy during the voyage. .

Nice quote, never read that one before, where did you find if you don't mind me asking. (And thanks for posting it.) One question though, it reads, "Mrs. Shelley took pains to inquire of steerage passengers as to whether or not they had heat in the steerage of the Titanic and received the answer that there was the same trouble with their heating plant, too." Was she referring to herself- or was it third party written?

As far as heating: The air was brought in through Sirocco fans located on the Boat Deck. From there the air past through oblong shaped trunks. By means of a lever connected to the ventilator a portion of the air could be directed over steam heated coils (a radiator), that was within the trunk. This would deliver air at a temperature of around 60 degrees. The staterooms had a 'hit or miss' system installed in which the passengers could shut the air off completely if so desired.

I am curious as far as what would cause the over heating mentioned. I can see perhaps some radiators not working- hence the cold, but over working... Interesting stuff.
 
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Harland Duzen

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Olympic did apparently suffer the same problem so fans were added all over the place after a few voyages and incorporated into Titanic (as would Britannic had she not had her portholes open to cool down the wards...)
 

Dave Gittins

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Getting back to the Californian business, I had a dig in my files and found that Leslie Reade managed to question relatives of Ross, Glenn and Thomas, the Californian crew who went to the British inquiry but didn't testify. It's only hearsay, but apparently all were going to say they had seen signals on the night to remember. In at least one case, any old letters were destroyed during WW II. It seems the witnesses had nothing to add, as the court thought. Another dead end.
 
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Andrew

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I'm not sure that anyone comes to the 'Californian incident' without preconceptions. If you start from the mindset that it was all an Establishment stitch-up, you'll always focus on the evidence to support that view. Similarly if your preconception is that the Californian could only have been watching the Titanic, you will naturally disregard any evidence to the contrary.
On this most enduringly contentious of topics, nobody starts from an objective standpoint. We just have to go with our gut instinct and pick which 'team' we're on.
 
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Harland Duzen

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Since many Post Millennials would learn about Titanic from either the basic books and documentaries which (from what I since learned) keep repeating the common myths and mistakes, it nearly certain that many would start learning about the Californian thinking Lord to be the Villain before (hopefully) learning of his innocents later.
 

Scott Mills

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After a year of researching and drafting my (hopefully good) book on Titanic, I begun to realise that we after 50+ years of books and research by numerous historians and writers (from Walter Lord to our very own members here), we have found out about practically everything to know about Titanic.

With a few exceptions, we know everything about the lives of the passengers and society, to the ship's interior design and edwardian mechanics, not to mention seafaring law and opinion at the time, we literally know every minute of the Ship's existence now which begs the question, Where do we go from here?

Many books, research papers and scientific tests have been done and written up about, but for Titanic writers and researchers of the future, except for new photos, the occasional survivors account or even new Californian or mystery ship data, They might end up just repeating what's known.

What are other's thoughts on this? Is it good we found out everything, is there still a huge mountain of missing evidence out there somewhere in a attic or library somewhere?

I think there is quite a bit left to tell, which is why I am an advocate of diving and deep penetration of the ship for archeological purposes while she can still be dived. Honestly, your comment here reminds me of the suggestion during the Grant administration in the United States that the US Patent Office be considered for closure since there was nothing new to invent! :)

There are a lot of deep abiding mysteries about the Titanic that remain, including making sense of the contradictory statements made by the surviving passengers and crew in the years that followed the disaster. Even the fact that you are writing a book, and I have one I've started and restarted a dozen times, should be enough to tell you... people still have a lot to say! :D
 
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Harland Duzen

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In terms of the wreck, I think it's time we got around to putting the Mini ROV's in the Stern wreck and Interior. While she imploded on the way down, her stern still has kept it's shape and there's surely some interesting sights inside (whether it's cabin design or artefacts which we should't touch)
 

Scott Mills

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I agree that artifacts should not be touched for profit. Unfortunately the nature of capitalism and salvage law makes this problematic; however, I do not give much credence to the notion that the wreck is a sacrosanct grave site. While it is certainly a grave site, and should not be approached or harmed with reckless abandon, it is also an archeological site.

I consider it far more important to the dead that the truth of the Titanic disaster and the stories of the individuals who died on her be told. To do otherwise is to silence the dead forever and have them truly consigned out of memory altogether.

So, by all means, leave artifacts in place. That is fine, unless those artifacts are material to us understanding what happened to Titanic that night in April over a century ago. Then their value to both the dead and the present far outweighs our socially constructed and dependent notions of decorum.
 
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Breuer_chair

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On the topic of what's left to say about the Titanic:

Here is a citation to an article that I wrote in Voyage, the Journal of the Titanic International Society, on Carpathia's rescue and care of Titanic's survivors. It uses newspaper articles, books, and the documents Behe collected in Voices from the Carpathia to present a new narrative of the rescue.

Eric Cimino. "Carpathia's Care for Titanic's Survivors." Voyage 101 (Fall 2017): 23-31.
 

Moj

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I was wondering how many of people are out there who know they are somehow related to the Titanic survivers ? Close or far. If there are such people out there especially related to the second and third class passengers then maybe they have heard more stories of the ship sinking and the final hours.
Another thing in my opinion is the wreck which is there and its full of new information.
As time passes we lose more of that evidence to the sea.
Im not in any way a fan of this new program of visiting the wreck just for recreational purposes . Its just wrong.
I think if there is going to be more diving it should only be for the purpose of research and obtaining new evidence.
 

Mike Spooner

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1. What was that cargo Californian carrying needed so urgent for Boston? As Ernest Gill said I can't smoke inside because of the danger or risk of the cargo on board?
2. I am still like to known Mark theory of or if the centre propeller was a three bladed or four bladed?
3. Has the subject of the H&W Arrol gantry been discussed? It would appear to me a very costly way to build a ship hull and lacks the efficiency as to what John Brown shipyard used in building of Lusitania and Aquitania ships? Then followed on years later of the two Queens Mary and Elizabeth using the same system with a increase length of slipway.
4. Does anybody know the details of the financial arrangement between H&W and John Brown shipyard were JB took a 52% stake in H&W?
 

Rich Hayden

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After a 35-year-long interest in the ship, I've recently come to the conclusion that we know almost nothing about the events of 14\15 April 1912. Not with any certainty.

So what there's 'left to say' is surely 'the Truth', and unfortunately we'll never know it. We don't even know what happened on the bridge in the minutes following the collision. Do we have a rough idea? Yes. Do we 'know'? IMO, no.

'It seems likely' is often the best we can say.

The sinking of the Titanic is an incredibly well-documented event yet it often seems that we know so little about what actually happened because we're totally reliant upon eyewitness accounts that are often misleading, contradictory, unreliable or pure fabrication.
 
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Whats new to learn about Titanic? I don't know. But the deeper I dig into things there's a lot to unlearn about the Titanic story.
 

Julian Atkins

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I would quite like the wreck of The Californian to be examined to find out where the Marconi wireless apparatus was located. I would quite like to know whether the details we have of the Captain's Cabin and the Chart Room have been accurately described.

Leslie Reade went to great lengths to find out where Glenn and Ross had lived, and managed to contact family survivors.

Interestingly, he appears to have taken no such extreme measures to track down the family of Ship's Carpenter McGregor, or for that matter the family of Stewart.

I think we know a great deal more - a considerably greater amount - about a lot of The Californian Incident than portrayed in the partial books of Leslie Harrison and Leslie Reade.

Cheers,

Julian
 

Harland Duzen

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Coincidentally, I was daydreaming about the prospect of examining the wreck of the Californian just a few hours ago. Given it sank in similar waters to Britannic, it would be possible to dive her via Scuba, submarine or ROV and (In theory), she should be uplight / on her side and mostly intact.

National Geographic have already done several shows and dives on Britannic, and with a bit of adjustment could spin a new documentary on the Californian.

Back to Topic!
 

Mike Spooner

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Julian,
In Leslie Harrison book A TITANIC MYTH gives the layout of bridge, chartroom, captain room and smoke room! But no mention of the Marconi room.
McGregor is mention, came from Edge Lane Liverpool age 41 and did not attended the inquiry.
 

Harland Duzen

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The Books show the layout of Californian's Flying Bridge and Promenade Deck but (unfortunately for us) the Wireless Room was installed on the Shelter Deck below (down the flight of stairs next to the Smoking Room).

Back to Topic!
 

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