New Titanic to be built

  • Thread starter Hugo Rupert Talbot-Carey
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Titanic 2 if it were to be built would be a larger modern ship in the 'image' of the Titanic from the outside. On the inside as said before it would retain a lot of classic features of the period but also be very different. It could happen. For example the the VW Beetle has a totally different engine in the front & all the comforts of a modern car yet still retains the look of the classic Beetle - although not enough for my liking!

But surly it is silly to continue with the debate that if a Titanic 2 were to happen it would be with all the small state rooms, small pool, no cinema and 1912 comforts etc! It would be a very different ship in many ways! Talking about the new Titanic being like 1912 with little bath-rooms etc is daft! It could happen but it would be larger and very different in many ways but still have lots of classic features from the period.
 
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>>That the ship was actually a bit plain compared
to some of her contempoaries<<

Maybe some of what you say is true, however I doubt the general public at large think that the Titanic was plain! That's a crazy thing to say. I doubt they know anything to do with her contempoaries about to be launched - Vaterland, Bismark etc! People who are into the Titanic know this. But the public if anything know the Titanic as being the biggest, grandest ship in world because that is what they are pumped with!! They are not told about the German ships that would out-class her hence I doubt they see the Titanic as plain. That's a daft statement!
 

Paul Rogers

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quote:

But surly [sic] it is silly to continue with the debate that if a Titanic 2 were to happen it would be with all the small state rooms, small pool, no cinema and 1912 comforts etc! It would be a very different ship in many ways!
And there's the rub, IMHO. Certainly I wouldn't pay to travel on a ship that was a: "very different ship" in many ways to Titanic just because it happens to bear the name Titanic II. What would be the point? There's enough cruise ships out there already to cater to current demand; possibly too many, in fact.

Titanic II would need to have USPs - "Unique Selling Points" - to differentiate it from its rivals. The normal USP envisaged is that it would be an almost exact replica of the original. If you decide to bin that concept, then what are you left with? Miles, you mention a new Titanic would have: "lots of classic features from the period". What sort of things were you thinking of? Why do you think they would be sufficient to encourage the average cruise passenger to book a passage on this new ship as opposed to on Aurora and her peers?​
 
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Guest (R17)

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I don't think anything would be sufficient. I don't think it is likely to happen. However I certainly would love to see a ship that looked like the Titanic from the ouside and would love to go on it, even if there were quite a few changes on the inside - which would be needed! If that puts you off going on it or seeing a ship very similar to the Titanic at least from the ouside and on the decks ( just a bit bigger maybe! ) then that's your loss.

I'd also love to have gone walk about on the Titanic 1997 film set to get a feel of what it was like!
 
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Guest (R17)

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>>Unique Selling Points<<

I think the Titanic 2 would be VERY unique to other cruise liners today, you may even have to que up to 4 years in advance to travel on it like the Orient Express. Then again it may not be a success at all. None of us know because a Titanic 2 has never been built!
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>Maybe some of what you say is true, however I doubt the general public at large think that the Titanic was plain! That's a crazy thing to say.<<

Why? If it's true, then it's true. Public perceptions don't change reality, and if it's true, it can hardly be called crazy.

>>I think the Titanic 2 would be VERY unique to other cruise liners today, you may even have to que up to 4 years in advance to travel on it like the Orient Express. Then again it may not be a success at all. None of us know because a Titanic 2 has never been built!<<

Perhaps but bear in mind that the people who own and operate cruise ships do market studies on this all the time. They have to if they want to survive. If those studies has indicated a Titanic II was going to be a hot item, there would be a ship in the water right now.
 

George Heiss

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<<perhaps>>

Nicely put Mike. You hit it on the head. I think many are missing this important fact. Many people who may have presented ideas on a Titanic replica seem to miss the business end of the concept and the legalites as well, once they find out, they run away with their tail between their legs. I too had many dreams of a Titanic replica...and I even jumped for joy when I read about one in Popular Mechanics many moons ago. But when I saw the drawing of the ship, I initially balked and complained, "NO STEAM!! How could you build a steamer without steam power!" I was very critical of the drawing as it was a steep departure from the original Titanic and I thought, "I can do better than this". But as I grew older and became more aware of other things outside of the dream, the fact became clear that a replica (or pseudo replica) of the Titanic is part of a business that has to generate a profit. In today's society, this would mean the replica would have to be altered to conform to today's safety standards, comply to today's navigational laws and insurance requirements. It would have to conform to an efficient design to reduce fuel consumption. The type of fuel needs to be considered as well. So I went back and looked at that picture again and realized that even with the modifications present...on a business level (again to generate profit) it still needed to be modified more. So in reality, in order to turn a profit and make sailing on her somewhat affordable, the changes needed would alter the original Titanic's design by more than 85%. But, wait, it gets uglier. Before anything can be done in terms of a final design. The concept would have undergo a market study as Mike pointed out. What is needed to know is how big a market or a demand is there for a pseudo replica of the Titanic vs the cost of construction and operation. If the market is too small or the costs of production are too high...the project will die a quick and painless death right then and there. More then likely, unless you have a billionaire that shares a common interest in the project and wants to pump in loads of cash arbitrarily into the project, investors will be needed. Investors could care less about what you do with your project, their primary interest is to use their money to make even more money. They want to see a return on thier investment within a reasonable amount of time. So a business plan is needed on top of the marketing study before a serious investor would even look at the project. So it is somewhere in this mix that all of the previous "Titanic Clone" attempts have failed. Either someone didn't do the proper market research or they were caught with their pants down when they realized how much it could cost a person to sail on the ship just to generate enough revenue to keep the investors happy and turn a profit. Also keep in mind that you will loose a good potential of your "Titanic fanatic clientele" because they insist on an exact replica and "anything less will not do". The market now gets smaller and the price to sail goes higher. But now you lost your core market. Then you get to the point that no one will want to pay the rate as it would be much much higher than anticipated. Potential investors pull out and the project dies. Where am I getting this info? Very simple, I wanted to start my own business one time and found out how much really goes into starting one and maintaining it. This is just one of the necessary evils. But overall the big picture is bewildering. But as Mike said...if everything fell into place and the pricing on everything is great and at the same time the investors are happy and the people are happy with the product...then there would have been a Titanic Clone sailing by now. Now am I saying that no ones dream on this will come true? Absolutely not. Trust me...I STILL would like to see a pseudo clone floating around out there. But it just boils down to the fact that the market is just not large enough to support the costs to build and maintain the ship. But that can change in time. Design changes may also help to increase the market to others. But it is true in the end we will be left with what I call an "Edwardian Era inspired" version of the Titanic. To many here this is not acceptable. Initially it wasn't even acceptable to me. But being steadfast and firm on the concept of an exact replica will go nowhere. But once you figure out how a business operates on a project this large, you will see that in order for the project to succeed IF the potential market is there in the first place...many many many compromises need to be made.

I know this is just the tip of the iceberg (pun intended) and I am probably missing something, so Mike, feel free to take over if you like.

Geo
 

Ernie Luck

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Hi George

I admire your enthusiasm but you have made an extremely good case for not doing it. To be acceptable to the authorities it would be nothing like Titanic. I am sick of the commercialisation that we have already and for me it would be just one big turn-off.
 

George Heiss

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Hello Ernie,

This point I was trying to drive home is that an actual working full replica of Titanic will only remain a dream. Your response is an excellent example. So I take it you are a Titanic fan. Ok, so if I may use you as an example, here goes: To make this a reality the ship at best would be an Edwardian based CONCEPT (not replica) ship. It wouldn't be a Titanic. It would be modeled and decorated as per 1912 design, but yet it would have to be a modern ship (this we cannot change). As you pointed out, if this ship would be marketed as a Titanic replica, die hard enthusiasts (like yourself) would laugh, turn their noses up and there goes the people that represent the very market I would be aiming the project at. So you and many others would be turned off and disappointed. So this would be my angle...if I were to undertake a project like this, first I would have to give the ship a unique name, probably something typical of a White Star Ship ending in -ic. Then I would market it as a 1912 Edwardian CONCEPT based liner similar to those used by the White Star Line. Of course going further to enhance the 'feel' the White Star Line logos and such could be licenced and utilized in the ship's appointments. As you can see this kind of marketing approach could very well gain enough interest in much wider client base that would extend to those interested in the Titanic, the Edwardian era, the White Star Line, and those seeking a different unique cruise experience. Now THAT is a much larger target market. In this case and ONLY this case, I believe the project could become a reality. But as soon as the words "Titanic 2" or "Titanic Replica" enters the picture...even though the ship may not be actually called Titanic...well, lets just say the project is good as sunk, no iceberg necessary.

Geo
 

Ernie Luck

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Nov 24, 2004
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Hi George

I get your point but I am afraid I remain sceptical - sorry. It will be interesting see other members views on this

Regards Ernie
 

George Heiss

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Hello Ernie,

Yes, it would be interesting to see how others would feel about it. There actually could be a market for something like this. But it does boil down to marketing studies.

Geo
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>...and I even jumped for joy when I read about one in Popular Mechanics many moons ago. But when I saw the drawing of the ship, I initially balked and complained, "NO STEAM!! How could you build a steamer without steam power!"<<

You can't. And I think things like that cut to the very core of the matter. The selling point for a scheme like this would be authenticity and there's nothing authentic about anything that would be both legal and economical to sail. Steam has been a dying duck for a long time now because diesels are a helluva lot more economical. You still find it in nuclear powered vessels and if fusion ever comes to pass, in all likelihood, the superheated plasma from the reactor will be run through a heat exchanger to produce steam. Even if it becomes practical to do that in our lifetime...and it may...it would still be terrifically expensive, and it still wouldn't be faithful to a ship fired by coal.

If there's a market for a vessel themed to Edwardian decor and tastes, that may well be a different matter, but you can bet that nobody's going to pay top dollar or even bottom dollar for the 3rd Class accomadation. All that aside, passengers still want their casinos, bars, shops, swimming pools, theatres, dance floors...in sum, all the amenaties that we take for granted that mostly didn't exist on Edwardian liners.
 
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Wayne Keen

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And, as I recall from that article, things like sewage processing were somewhat - primitive on the original.

I maintain if one ever went for a near bolt-for-bolt rebuild, it would be as a museum piece, not a traveling ship.

Wayne
 

George Heiss

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Hello Wayne, Mike

I enjoy your discussions very much. As well as those from Jeff. All four of us do seem to approach this idea of a Titanic Replica realistically. In another thread I explained to Jeff what I would do in terms of a stand alone attraction (forgot where I put it, but you should be able to find it easily) based on a museum/hotel. As Wayne said above...this would be the only way that you could ever achieve something on a bolt to bolt level detailing. Moreover, you wouldn't have to be burdened with the cost of building and operating a ship. So this is definately a more viable option.

Mike, yes you are right...on an Edwardian or White Star Line themed ship, more then likely the bulk of the rooms would be more modeled after first class with quite a few 2nd class rooms. There would be third class rooms for those that want to embrace the experience and really want to rough it out, but I could only see a handful of them as the market would be small on this count. But in one aspect that is a good thing, because you will need the space for other ammenities as we both mentioned above. But the bottom line is that the ship would have to appeal to a great number of people. This would determine it's size. It would undoubtably be much larger than the Titanic. So having a larger market and a larger vessel will definatly bring the cost of sailing on her down considerably. Something like this just recently happened. It is the Queen Mary 2. When Carnival bought Cunard, they realized right off the bat that the QE2 was too small to continue to operate at a profit and such the costs of operation required a high ticket price even for the less luxurious accomodations. Where as on the QM2 the prices of the lower accomodations are much more affordable. Thus this appeals to a larger market and thus can sustain the ship's operation while the company can still turn a profit. So the same principle would have to apply to an Edwardian Era or White Star Line themed ship. Exterior wise the ship could retain a classic look and retain the four funnels, but outside of that, it would be very different from the Titanic indeed.

This would be a tremendous undertaking and I seriously doubt a private venture would be able to pull it off. It is possible, but doubtful. The money needed to pull it off is astronomical. The marketing studies alone would cost a fortune. I could only see a large cruise ship company, such as Carnival pull something like this off, mainly because they already know the costs of operating a ship. But even still the market has to be there and I am sure research has been done on it already due to the high interest in Titanic. As Mike pointed out though...if the market was present...there would have been a ship already floating around out there.

For me I would go the museum/hotel route. More accuracy can be maintained, you don't need as large a market and costs of operation are much much lower. The downside? Well, you are not out at sea and you don't go anywhere. But the upsides outweigh this and a project like this is much more feasible.


Thanx guys for the great conversation.

Geo
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>And, as I recall from that article, things like sewage processing were somewhat - primitive on the original.<<

No kidding. The caca doodoo was piped directly over the side. Even in port. Except for some really backward countries, you won't find anyone willing to put up with that.
 

George Heiss

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Mike & Wayne, you probably are correct there as well (the sewage issues). So that would be another issue that had to be dealt with. I am sure the list would go on and when you really think about it.

Wayne, I addressed a permanent land structure such as a museum/hotel somewhere else. It would probably be much easier to do and can be more accurate as well...not to mention less costly. Of course certain building codes would have to be dealt with, but by and large a more accurate representation of the ship could be attained as a building on land rather than an actual working ship at sea.

Geo
 
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Wayne Keen

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Yes, land basing of one form or another makes things easier from a maintainance standpoint - I have considered that for my eccentric billionare project (laughing at me)

Wayne
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>Mike & Wayne, you probably are correct there as well (the sewage issues). So that would be another issue that had to be dealt with.<<

Well, for a working commercial vessel or a warship, the fix would be simple enough in that the ship would be equipped with Collection and Holding Tanks. What we referred to as CHT tanks in the Navy. (As you can well imagine, CHT was spoken as a rather more colourful metephore for caca doodoo.)

As it stands, I'm not sure a landlocked replica would really be cheaper. Those building codes are very stringent...fire safety is a BIG issue...and a structurally accurate vessel is designed to get some of it's support from the water while afloat.
 

Matthew Lips

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By and large, there is hardly anything bigger than a wooden spoon which has not had its design and construction improved over the past one hundred years.

Even if the expertise still existed to do it, to build something as large and as complex as an ocean liner using technology which is a century out of date is totally unfeasible. This would apply even to a liner which never leaves its moorings.

If the new Titanic were built in a manner wwhich satisfies 21st century rules and codes, it would wind up resembling the original in little more than name.

And, believe me, that name by itself is a marketing person's nightmare. There is hardly anybody outside of a few remote jungles and deserts who doesn't associate the word "Titanic"
with words like "disaster", "tragedy", and "catastrophe."

So, for the millionth time, it ain't ever going to happen. The only Titanic is going to remain the crumbling wreck on the Atlantic floor.
 
Aug 15, 2005
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In about 1994, I heard that the Japanese were planning to build a full size working replica as a Hotel/Conference Centre, but the ship's "Owners" would not allow it.
Personally, I'd love to see one built so that I could get an idea of the Immense size.
I saw the QE2 once in Liverpool, but she looked tiny with only the one funnel.
 

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