Nomadic The State of Play


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Philip Hind

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Hi,

I have been following your discussion about the Nomadic with interest and I am curious to know what the state of play really is.

Have you been in contact with the AFT group who have also been championing the Nomadic's cause?

I had a letter of support from Ken Marschall and I passed him on the the AFT, he is clearly a high profile supporter.

What is the proposal you have put together for possible donating organisations/companies?

Is it worth doing a mailshot to those companies that are known to support ventures such as this, particularly those in NI, if that is the preferred location?

Is it worth contacting other trusts that have sought to preserve historic ships to find out how they went about it?

Is it an idea to set up a dedicated trust in order to register as a charity and solicit donations, obviously there needs to be a concrete proposal for this to progrss.

I have previously set-up other websites which accept online donations, would this help?

And so on....

All just questions, of course, and no doubt you have thought of all of them before but I am willing to help if I can.

Phil
 

Sam Brannigan

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Dec 20, 2000
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Hi Phil

As you can imagine, Phil Delaunoy and myself are reeling at the minute and I am finding it difficult to work out a way of approaching companies for private funding. It is very difficult for me to accept the end of Belfast's interest - if they won't save her, who will?
With regard to private finance questions arise, such as "what will they want in return?", "what possible interest would they have in the Nomadic?", "which sort of companies should be approached?".
The timescale now seems to be the most formidable problem - Yvon Vincent is ready to sell her as we speak, so if anyone wins the lottery or can spare two and a half million quid speak up now!

I have sent off a few mails to the Maritime museums in Greenwich and Liverpool and after I return from work tonight hopefully my head will be clearer and I can start to work out a strategy to contact the media here......a high impact email emphasising Nomadic's Titanic connection VERY STRONGLY is probably the best way.....they will lap up anything to do with the Titanic, as you know. Any help for the wording of such an email would be brilliant.
On Monday morning I intend to call the "Gerry Anderson" radio show here in Ulster and get the story out there and see what the feedback is.....believe me, I am terrified of the prospect of going out live on air but if there are no other volunteers!
In response to Erik's post on the "Nomadic in Danger" thread, thank you for all your help and constant support OM, your observation about the state of Nomadic's hull worries me also!! Phil expressed his belief that only 5% of her hull plates were damaged, but he didn't mention her structural integrity. He is actually in possession of Nomadic's last survey and valuation, perhaps we could view it in a private forum. Your expertise would be vital, Erik.

David - Believe me, I am right up there with you on the frustration bit!! The sense of helplessness at the minute is overwhelming......
I felt that the excuse that H&W's lack of involvement and their demands for £20000 to conduct the survey were very lame reasons for pulling the plug on this project.
However, I also understand that other projects must be considered and that they have to priorotise.
Why the Nomadic didn't automatically jump to the top of that list, I really do not know. I cannot think of a more crucial and vital part of Belfast's heritage than to have the last White Star ship in the world berthed close to the Harland and Wolff shipyard. I really do despair........they should have been throwing buckets of money at this project, anything that was required.
Finally, the more I look at the email I received from DCALNI, the more upset I am. Blunt is not the word. It makes me feel that myself and Phil have been taken for a ride and that this was never going to happen anyway. Belfast NEVER had any discussions with M. Vincent, so how do they know they couldn't meet the owners asking price?? I suppose haggling never entered the equation?

I apologise for being so negative, I really am on a huge downer at the moment, and I cannot for the life of me see how £2.5million can be raised by this time next week, but I shall try to bear your quote from Henry Ford in mind, David, and I shall add another one of my own:

"On the whole, a man must not complain of his "element", of his "time" or the like; it is thriftless work doing so. His time is bad: well then, he is there to make it better."

Thomas Carlyle

Regards

Sam
 

Erik Wood

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Sam, Phil,

As I am friends with Maritime Matters Publisher they have offered to write and devote a page to the Nomadic. Both on her past and her present as well as any efforts to save her. However, he asked for emailable pictures of her current condition as well as her past. As I am ... indisposed at the moment I don't have access to my collection. If you could send them to me I will ensure they get to him.

Erik
 

Sam Brannigan

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Erik,

Hope you got my links and pix okay, I'm having trouble with my email.
Philipe - we need to find out asap the feasibility of the restaurant project. If it falls through we have time on our hands. Can you find out who they are?
Also, it would be brilliant if you could post the survey details of the Nomadic here, as this is a private and secure forum confidentiality will be assured.
Be back from work around 11pm

Regards

Sam
 

Erik Wood

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Sam,

I did get the links. I sent an email to Martin Cox and he says something should be posted by Close of Business Saturday. THS says they will get back to me. I also sent something to Noel Ray with the Irish Titanic Historical Society. I got ahold of my company (Carnival who owns Cunard)press office, and they didn't seem to interested.

Erik
 

Sam Brannigan

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Ladies and gentlemen,

This is a long shot, but what about approaching JP Getty for funds. Check this out:

http://www.getty.edu/grants/program/

I've also just posted a mail to Tessa Jowell, the culture and arts minister for the whole UK( might as well see what she does before I get on to Mr. Blair), while Phillipe has not given up on Belfast, having sent this storming email:

Dear Mr Gray,

First of all, I would like to thank you very much for all efforts you made
in the Nomadic project.

As an accoutant, I understand very well your budget imperatives. But
before renouncing this formidable project to bring the Nomadic back to
Belfast for ever, I would like to be sure that all ways have been
examinated. Is it not possible to find some private donors, Maecenas, ...
from important Private Companies in Nothern Ireland ? Can't Harland &
Wolff take part at the funding ?

I really understand the (financial) problem caused by the examination and
the transport of the ship. I also understand that the price of £2,5
million is a huge part of the total budget. But I never said and Mr
Vincent also never said that he was not ready to negociate the price tag.
The fact that the "RMS Titanic project" is in deadlock and the fact that Mr
Vincent's best motivation is to sell the ship are more advantages for the
"Belfast project".

I also agree with you when you say that the ship will not disappear but all
her original and historical artifacts, interiors ... all her historical
value WILL surely be destroyed.

Is the Nomadic and his fabulous historical significance not worthwile a
direct contact with the owner in order to find some financial agreement ?

My intention is not to force anybody but I ask you the favor to reconsider
your position about the Nomadic. I really think that there is a real
willpower in N-I that can lead to a profitable solution for both parties.
If you really can't support such a financial cost, does it exist other
interested Institutions : the City of Belfast for example, ... ?

I thank you in advance for all the support you can still give us.

Warm regards.


Philippe Delaunoy

Also, we have enough signatures (300+) to make Shanes petition qualify for inclusion on the 10 Downing Street website!!!!!! So the Nomadic hits the heart of government. I am awaiting a reply to see how it gets set up by their web team.

Regards

Sam
 

Sam Brannigan

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Dear all,

They say that the darkest hour of the day is the one just before dawn. It seems we have a ray of light.....

Belfast is back.

Here are the two responses to Phillipe's email to David Gray. I have posted them because Phil has no access to the internet at the moment:

24/08/01 11:18

Dear Mr Delaunoy,

Given the huge costs of transporting Nomadic to Belfast, plus the costs of
restoring her, we could not consider offering the owner much more than the
vessel's scrap value, and even then, we would have to put a special bid to
our Finance Department to get the money.

That is why we feel we must withdraw. The financial position really is
that
difficult.

I'm sorry I cannot be more helpful.

Best wishes,

David Gray

Very understandable, perhaps, but then check out this bolt from the blue.....

Dear Monsieur Delaunoy,

There have been developments.

Within the past hour I spoke personally to the Minister for Culture, Arts
and Leisure, Mr Michael McGimpsey, who has authorised an inspection of the
Nomadic. I must emphasise that the purchase price still poses a very
serious problem, but at least we will be in a position to consider what can
be done when we have a full report on the condition of Nomadic.

Monday is a holiday in Northern Ireland, but on Tuesday I will need to start
making arrangements for the Harland and Wolff people to visit Paris. I
should be grateful if you could convey this information to Monsieur Vincent.
I hope that the inspection can take place within the next two weeks. I now
need to work out the logistics for the visit, including translation
facilities.

Perhaps you could let me have your telephone number, so that I can contact
you more quickly when necessary.

Again, I would emphasise that there are no guarantees in all of this, but at
least things are moving forward.

Thank you for your help.

Best wishes,

David Gray.

Phil then replied.........

Dear Mr Gray,

I am very pleased to give you my telephone numbers :

Office :
Home :

Mr Yvon Vincent has knowlegde of the arrival of people from Harland &
Wolff. He'll be ready to welcome them whenever during the next 2 weeks but
he'll not be present on Thursday 30/08/2001 between 09:00 am and 12:00 am
(local time).

Don't hesitate to contact me if you need any information.

Could you be so kind as to thank Mr McGimpsey for his interest for the
Nomadic ?

Warm regards.


Ph. Delaunoy

This is as big a high as yesterday was a low. Michael McGimpsey is basically the God of Northern Ireland culture and arts and if he has approved this survey then it is a massive boost. Everyone else who has been mentioned in association with this project pales into insignificance when his name is mentioned. As David Gray says, there are absolutely no guarantees and if anything the sense of loss yesterday has made me even more determined to spread the scope of the appeal further. But this is a very encouraging development, and M. Delaunoy deserves to step to the front of the ship, climb on the railings, and scream "I'm the King of the World!!!!!!!!"

Regards

Sam
 

Sam Brannigan

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Dear all,

Thanks to Phil Hind, I can reveal further confidential information in this private forum.

The reason I was so confident about Belfast was because I received information from Eamonn O'Neill less than a week ago to this effect:

1) The Heritage and Lottery commitee here had guaranteed 75% of the finance required to restore Nomadic to her original condition if she was returned.

2) The finance had been secured for the operation of bringing the Nomadic back to Belfast.

3) Finance had already been found to send a team from H&W to survey the ship and arrangements for flights and accomodation were akready being made.

As you can see, the above represents an extraordinary level of progress with regard to peripheral funding, so you can imagine my shock when they said the project had been binned. Remember also that this information came from the chairman of the Culture and Arts committee of the Northern Ireland Government!!
I wonder if for some reason they were trying to wrongfoot Phil and I, and that great things may be ahead?????? Just a bit of fanciful whimsy, but I can't help wondering...any opinions, anyone? After all, the news today represents an astonishing u-turn.
This information was passed on to me in the strictest confidence so even though I know you never would, please make sure none of it leaves this forum. Merci beaucoup!!

Kind regards

Sam
 
Jul 9, 2000
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Dittos to the above. This is very good news. If there is a public subscription floated to raise additional funds,(This will probably be nesseccery!) put me on the list. I can be e-mailed through this site.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 

Sam Brannigan

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Dec 20, 2000
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Phil,

There is one thing you could do which may be of great help.

You mention that Ken Marschall contacted you and that you passed him on to the AFT. It would be great if you could ask Ken to contact those people in Belfast connected to the project to offer support, and also if there is any way he could contact Jim Cameron.

I have emailed Paramount and Twentieth Century Fox, but all I got back was the expected crappy "thanks for emailing us" response.

It would be wonderful if Cameron could get his weight behind this project (he must be aware of the Nomadic through Ken and the film) and it seems to me that Ken may be able to get a message off to him about the most recent developments. Financial backing would be great, but even just to have such an immensly high profile figure on our side would be incredible.

Kind regards

Sam
 

Philip Hind

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Ken is currently with Cameron at the Titanic wrecksite together with our man Parks, I'll can contact him when they get back.
 

Sam Brannigan

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Here is some more sensitive information:

The Northern Ireland authorities did some checking with the French government and Parisian authorities and discovered that Yvon Vincent, the owner of the Nomadic, owes a serious amount of money for overdue mooring fees for the Nomadic.
It seems that this amount is so much that he cannot pay it without selling the ship and he is therefore in serious debt.
Perhaps this will help if/when it comes down to negotiations over the price of the ship. If Northern Ireland does decide to commit and attempt to buy her, it seems feasible that they could influence the French authorities to put pressure on him and so ensure a reasonable price for her (assuming of course that £2.5 million is an extortionate price), to the satisfaction of all parties.
I feel it is also important to stress that with all the bad press M. Vincent has had, if it were not for him Nomadic would have been scrapped years ago, so I feel it is important that he is viewed with a certain amount of respect.
I hope this sheds more light on the situation for you all.

Regards

Sam
 

Erik Wood

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Aug 24, 2000
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We may want to look into a couple of things.

Such as making our efforts into a non profit organziation. If we do this we could get grants and extra from different business and the like. It would be a write off for them. We could also be eligable for Historical funds from different governments.

Erik
 

Sam Brannigan

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Dec 20, 2000
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This just in from Phil:

Dear Sirs,

As a result of my conversation with Nomadic's owner about your decision, Mr
Vincent asked me to inform you about the following :

1. He will, to the last minute, prefer to sell the ship to Belfast.
2. He will agree whatever serious compromise about purchase price and
payment.
3. If needed, he could inform you about transportation and/or restoration
by a local company.
4. All of this could permit you to bring the boat back to Belfast before
"1912-2002 commemorations" and give you the necessary timescale to find
other investors.

Warm regards.

Philippe Delaunoy
 
Jul 9, 2000
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Easley South Carolina
Well, at least that leaves the foot in the door. Wish I had some ideas as to where to go from here. It's been suggested that the current owners financial difficulties could be used as some leverage. I'd tread very lightly here. If the man thinks he's being blackmailed or excessively pressured, he could sell the NOMADIC to other interests out of sheer spite.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
P

Philippe Delaunoy

Guest
Dear all,

I owe you an apologize. I only noticed this "protected" board today .....!

I will ASAP translate and post the Nomadic's examination report.

Here are my last actions about the Nomadic Rescue Project :

1. I sent about 45 e-mails to North Down Councillors, Belfast City Council's webmaster, various NI Assembly MLA's, ...

I received ... 1 reply : from Miss Marion Smith. She also is a UTS member and she's a friend of Bill McQuitty (ANTR director).

2. I asked Bass Leisure Retail if they could be interested to take part in the funding of Nomadic's restoration. BLR already restored the TS Queen Mary, morred today on the Tames in London.

Reply :"Dear Philippe

Thank you for your email and enquiry. I have passed your detail on to our
Property Department, however we have not plans to acquire any further ships
for conversion.

Thank you for your interest in the Company.

Kind regards
Sally Ellson
Six Continents Retail"

3. I'm now trying to get the support from recognized Titanic Historians and other VIP's. I asked Sam to contact Ken Marshall. I contacted George Behe.

Phil could you please forward my request to all qualified person you know?


The idea is to give more formality to our quest.

4. I also forwarded a mail received from the "Waverley" Preservation Society to Eamonn O'Neill. The Waverley is the last seagoing paddle steamer. Mr Cameron (?) informed me that the total restoration costs were about £4.3 million and "Finally, the funding route for the Waverley rebuild were :

Heritage Lottery Fund (approx 63%)
Paddle Steamer Preservation Society (approx 23%)
Scottish Enterprise / Local Government Funding (approx 10%)
European Union (approx 4%)"

Mr O'Neill secretary replied me "Dear Philippe

Thank you for your e-mail, dated 11 October 2001 regarding SS Nomadic.

Eamonn will bring the issue up with other interested MLA's. You may contact
any MLA directly via the Assembly website: www.niassembly.gov.uk

Should you experience any problems with the website or require any further
clarification please do not hesitate to contact our Castlewellan office.

Yours Sincerely

Laura King
Administrative Assistant for Cllr Eamonn ONeill MLA"

5. Last Friday, I tried to contact Dr Ian Adamson. Dr Adamson is a member of the NI Assembly AND the Belfast City Council. It seems that BCC will play a leading role in the final decision. Dr Adamson was not at his office but his secretary said me that she heard that:

* the Project total costs are about £ 6 million
* technical problems to move the ship will force Belfast Authorities to give up.

Your comments are welcome.

Write you soon.

Phil
 
P

Philippe Delaunoy

Guest
Here is a summary of the last Nomadic's examination report :

S. FRANCOIS
Sea & River Examinations
Avenue de l’Europe, 12
91200 ATHIS_MONS
Phone : 0033.1.69.38.56.07
Fax : 0033.1.69.38.72.12


SURVEY REPORT:


General description:

Name: NOMADIC
Type: Ferry
Matriculation: P 15 818 F
Length: 67.00 m
Breadth: 11.00 m

Building

Year: 1911
Type: riveted plates
Shipyard: Harland & Wolff — UK
Material: steel

Last survey: 10, 11 and 12 August 1994
Owner: Mr. Y. Vincent
Quai Debilly
75016 Paris

TOOLS:

Preparatory cleaning: hydraulic brush 110 bar — nylon and steel.

Inspection:

Apparatus: Krautkramer/Branson portable
Type: D M D 2
Length of sounder wire: 10 meters
Type of sounder: Marine DA 301B — 5 MHz
Monitor: Numeric LCD
Calibration: 10 mm — 5 mm — 2 mm (0.394 inch — 0.197 inch — 0.0788 inch)
Rate: 5900m/sec
Stitch: 2 meters
Inspection spots: 180
Inspection date: 10, 11 and 12 August 1998
Inspection place : Quai Debilly Paris
Divers : J.J. Ferro — L. Fouillet — P. Dedain
Experts : S. Francois — J.J. Ferro

REPORT :

Development :

During the inspection, the visibility under the water was 50 cm. The stream was medium.
Divers inspected the totality of under water hull plates.

Observations:

Shafts and screws are still there.

Some shock traces are visible.

Minimum depth under the boat: 40 cm (stern)

Due to important ship traffic, water motion is dangerous for divers.

Conclusions:

Rust marks are visible on original steel plates.

The forward section is more affected: rust marks are greater and closer. On the forward section the rust marks’ average diameter is 4 cm (1.6 inch). On the stern section, the marks’ average diameter is 2 cm (0.8 inch).

The last examination report shows no important rust marks.

Without any consequence on the rivets’ strength, those marks indicate an electrolytic (?) alteration.

Many causes are imaginable:

Difference of metal electric potential.
Water sourness
Electric loss (?)
Earth connection

The ultrasonic inspection shows the same average hull thickness than during the last 1994 survey.

The electrolytic (?) alteration seems to be the only observed default.

There is no major risk that could prevent the ship to keep afloat but it could be necessary to inspect the ship into a dry-dock. A cathode protection is recommended.

Structure:

The structure is mostly rusted on the stern section.

Recommendations:

To clean internal surfaces and to apply an antirust protection.
To apply a cathode protection
To prevent all pipe leakage.

S. FRANCOIS
Sea & River Examinations
Avenue de l’Europe, 12
91200 ATHIS_MONS
Phone : 0033.1.69.38.56.07
Fax : 0033.1.69.38.72.12


Ship: Nomadic


After our examination done on 23d January 1999, the following improvements were observed:

All pipes on cargo decks were repaired,
2 secondary pumps were added,
The stern compartment is dry and no water infiltration is observed."
 
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