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Aly Jones
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Did WSL officers get taxed and supplied payslips like we do today?
Officers' taxes and pay slips
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Robert T. Paige
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I don't know how it was in the United Kingdom and other countries but the first income tax in the United States was during the Civil War in 1861. But it was later rescinded and the income tax as we know it today did not begin until 1913.
Did the WSL officers get equivalents of W2's and had to file the equivalents of 1040's every year ?
Dave Gittins
Member
I haven't been able to find all the details, but income tax cut in a £160 per year, so Titanic's crew paid no income tax, except for Captain Smith and the top officers of the deck crew and the engineers. Everybody received a statement of wages when they signed off after each voyage. I wonder how they reported annual income.
I know everybody's income and what everybody earns;
And I carefully compare it with the income-tax returns;
But to benefit humanity however much I plan
Yet everybody says I'm such a disagreeable man!
And I can't think why!
Recognise it?
I know everybody's income and what everybody earns;
And I carefully compare it with the income-tax returns;
But to benefit humanity however much I plan
Yet everybody says I'm such a disagreeable man!
And I can't think why!
Recognise it?
Steven Christian
Member
In 1912 the income tax rate was around 6%. By the end of WW1 it had risen to around 30%. But that was just income taxes for people who made a certain amount. There were other taxes too.I don't know how it was in the United Kingdom and other countries but the first income tax in the United States was during the Civil War in 1861. But it was later rescinded and the income tax as we know it today did not begin until 1913.
Did the WSL officers get equivalents of W2's and had to file the equivalents of 1040's every year ?
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Aly Jones
Member
Are you referring to a payslip? Be great if there were 1912 original payslips still around?
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Aly Jones
Member
I would like to know this too.Did the WSL officers get equivalents of W2's and had to file the equivalents of 1040's every year ?
Stephen Carey
Member
Some info given here Income Tax. and in other stuff on the web, but nothing finite. It seems tax was increased to 17.5% in 1914 (to pay for the war), but what it was in 1912 it doesn't say on the History of Tax in UK.
PAYE (Pay As You Earn) which is where the tax is deducted at source by the employer goes back into the 19th century, but it seems it was collected half yearly or yearly, though I don't know how that would have worked. PAYE as we know it today was introduced in 1944 (paying for yet another war) and is a far better system than having to file a tax return every April. The government gets its dosh every month as you earn it, and I believe that it's around June 21st (midsummer's day) that you start earning for yourself!
As for WSL officers, I've answered this on FB to Aly, but I would think they got a pay statement when they "Paid off" the ship, though whether they got it cash in hand or bank draft I don't know, but suspect the latter. Whether they were taxed or not depended on their income level - same as today. Whether they actually reached the minimum tax level though I don't know. I think I saw somewhere that Lightoller's salary was £35/month? That was quite big money in those days, so he was probably taxed at the basic rate. The rate went up to 17.5% in 1914, so was probably 15% or less in 1912.
Just found this - "£160 per year was the annual income at which income tax became payable, and considered to be the dividing line between working and middle class. The average working week in 1912 was 56 hours." If Lightoller was on £35/month, that's £420pa, so he's well above the minimum rate. The £160 tax free would be subtracted and he would pay tax at other levels on the remaining £260. If it was 15% then he'd pay £39 a year tax meaning his take home pay was 160 + (260-39) = £381 or £31.75 per month. If you know the salaries of the officers you can substitute for the £35. The officers worked at least 8 hours a day, 7 days a week, so their weekly hours were 56 - the national average according to the article below.
(Titanic: Living in 1912 > Jake Simpkin - Local Historian & Guide.)
In my day you were either Company Contract (where your salary was paid into the bank monthly, both at sea and when on leave) or Pool Contract where you signed on for a certain amount as a daily rate whilst at sea and "Paid Off" cash in hand when you left the ship. This was the reason that crew and some officers' pay stopped when their ship was sunk during the war - or peacetime for that matter. You could arrange for a monthly "allotment" to be sent to your wife/family if you were on a Pool contract.
PAYE (Pay As You Earn) which is where the tax is deducted at source by the employer goes back into the 19th century, but it seems it was collected half yearly or yearly, though I don't know how that would have worked. PAYE as we know it today was introduced in 1944 (paying for yet another war) and is a far better system than having to file a tax return every April. The government gets its dosh every month as you earn it, and I believe that it's around June 21st (midsummer's day) that you start earning for yourself!
As for WSL officers, I've answered this on FB to Aly, but I would think they got a pay statement when they "Paid off" the ship, though whether they got it cash in hand or bank draft I don't know, but suspect the latter. Whether they were taxed or not depended on their income level - same as today. Whether they actually reached the minimum tax level though I don't know. I think I saw somewhere that Lightoller's salary was £35/month? That was quite big money in those days, so he was probably taxed at the basic rate. The rate went up to 17.5% in 1914, so was probably 15% or less in 1912.
Just found this - "£160 per year was the annual income at which income tax became payable, and considered to be the dividing line between working and middle class. The average working week in 1912 was 56 hours." If Lightoller was on £35/month, that's £420pa, so he's well above the minimum rate. The £160 tax free would be subtracted and he would pay tax at other levels on the remaining £260. If it was 15% then he'd pay £39 a year tax meaning his take home pay was 160 + (260-39) = £381 or £31.75 per month. If you know the salaries of the officers you can substitute for the £35. The officers worked at least 8 hours a day, 7 days a week, so their weekly hours were 56 - the national average according to the article below.
(Titanic: Living in 1912 > Jake Simpkin - Local Historian & Guide.)
In my day you were either Company Contract (where your salary was paid into the bank monthly, both at sea and when on leave) or Pool Contract where you signed on for a certain amount as a daily rate whilst at sea and "Paid Off" cash in hand when you left the ship. This was the reason that crew and some officers' pay stopped when their ship was sunk during the war - or peacetime for that matter. You could arrange for a monthly "allotment" to be sent to your wife/family if you were on a Pool contract.
Steven Christian
Member
Thanks for the info. Interesting. The link I found said in 1912 it was 6%. By the wars end it was around 30%. But it never said if it went back down after that. Probably not.
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Aly Jones
Member
Would anyone know, if they received payslips, if they were on a salary etc...
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Aly Jones
Member
How much did the officers get payed monthly? In 8 officers and a gentleMan, It mentions 20 pounds is roughly $2600. I've read that wilde got 36 pounds monthly, so would this mean wilde got around $3500 a month? Equaling up to $900 a week?
Steven Christian
Member
Some info in the article.
Titanic's Officers - Articles - Officer's Money in 1912
A website devoted to collating information on Titanic's officers, as well as the officers involved in the disaster such as the Carpathia and Californian.
www.titanicofficers.com
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Aly Jones
Member
Thx Steven,
I've found out that the officers got paid in coin only. Notes were not used in Britain until during WWI
I've found out that the officers got paid in coin only. Notes were not used in Britain until during WWI
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Mark Baber
Staff member
Moderator
Member
Aly, what country's dollar are you referring to here? The exchange rate between pounds and U.S dollars was 5/1; the two statements you make here use exchange rates of 1300/1 and 97.2/1.
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Mark Baber
Staff member
Moderator
Member
Steven Christian
Member
Your Welcome. I think pretty much everyone got paid in coins up to WW1. From what I've read Britain stated printing a one pound and a 10 shilling note in 1914 because they were running low of gold and silver reserves. The officers probably had a lot of gold sovereigns (= to 1 pound in 1912) go thru their pockets if they were paid once a month. But I can't say that for sure in all cases as the bank of england and some private banks issued their own paper notes prior to WW1 (see Mark's link above).
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