Officers' taxes and pay slips

[Steven Christian]

Yes things we take for granted today were a major hurdle for people back then. We've progressed so much in the last hundred years. I can't speak for other countries but mine doesn't really teach history in schools anymore, so many of the recent generation are clueless to what things could be again if things really went south. I've read in the 1800's it was not uncommon for people to live there lives never having traveled more than 50 miles from where they were born. So back to Titanic...probably not for the upper class but for the immigrants the modern liners of her time must have seemed like a dream to them. Unfortunately for Titanic that dream turned into a nightmare.

 

[Robert T. Paige]

Back to taxes and pay slips.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but White Star and other steamship companies had some sort of annuities or pensions system for pay to retired officers ? Were there some sort of requirements for age and/or length of service ?

What about the stewards and others down to the stokers and other members of the crew ?
Were there any provisions for them ?

 

[Stephen Carey]

Some info in the article.

Titanic's Officers - Articles - Officer's Money in 1912

A website devoted to collating information on Titanic's officers, as well as the officers involved in the disaster such as the Carpathia and Californian.

www.titanicofficers.com

That article and all the links that it opens up is a mine of WSL information, so thanks for that. Having been told off by Sam and Ioannis over my perception of officers' hours recently, it was interesting to see that the watchkeeping hours were changed the year after the disaster in 1913, as shown in a panel in the article. This could have been when the officers' hours were changed to match the engineers, though I can't find any mention of when that was specifically. I always thought it was to get the two branches in line, as previously the engineers had 4-on, 8-off, better pay and better food! All the engineers got out of it was "officer" status which was questionably of any advantage. Even in my day, the term "Officer" was not tagged on the end of an engineer's rank, even though we were "Deck and Engineer Officers" according to the companies.
The part about "two weeks" and later "3 weeks" leave is also interesting as not so many years before I joined the MN, the leave was still 2 weeks per annum, the same as the "annual fortnight" granted to workers in the UK post war. It was considered to not be enough however, as most seamen would state "What about all the weekends that we don't get within a year?" which was fair do's really. I joined shortly after the "9 days leave per month served" ended, with companies then endeavouring to entice officers into their employ by various leave schemes. A few relatively minor errors but overall a link worth saving in your "favourites". Thanks, Steven!

 

[Steven Christian]

Your Welcome. Glad you found it interesting. My first command I was assigned to was a really small outfit...20-25 people. It was a guided missile unit. Being so small everybody got along with each other really well. Including the disbursing clerk/yeomen we had. Long story short...we got a lot of basket leave. My next command...zero.

 

[Stephen Carey]

Geez, 1 million people a year that died from food poisoning plus others died of other illness. Scary.

Also they didn't have a car to run. Only the rich had cars. These days, every Joe blow has a car

Not where I live Aly!

 

[Steven Christian]

But still lots of Jeepneys still around? At least I hope so. Always liked what they did with them.

 

[Stephen Carey]

Ah - my pet hate Steven - multicabs and jeepneys... I want to be the one who is given the task of crushing them all - with manic glee - if/when our city actually gets a Bus Rapid Transit system... They may appear novel to the tourists, but that's where they should be relegated, to theme parks and banned for all time from the roads. When you live here and are trying to get to the mall to pay your bloody water bill as you can't do it online, being hemmed in by phalanxes of 40 or more of these infernal gas-guzzling, smoking, unsanitary vehicles driven by maniacs who have never taken a driving test, you would change your tune! I have a pathological hatred of them and was severely disappointed when the much vaunted BRT fell as usual into the dust and the millions of "PUB/PUJ" continue to be licenced by the LTFRB. Each of these vehicles holds around the same number of passengers as a Wells Fargo stagecoach from the old West - there's progress for you - yet the LTFRB's mission statement is "providing a world class transportation system"! Words fail me...

 

[Steven Christian]

Do you know when that pic was taken? I could be remembering it wrong but I remember old military jeeps that were converted with basically just some bench seats in the back. But I could be wrong as I was there in 1970's and only rode them from Olongapo to Subic City. I'm sure its probably changed a lot since then.

 

[Jim Currie]

I found an old one of mine way back at the beginning of 53.

There is also some interesting information on the back which refers to the date 1906. Alkso note the MSA date at the top of the front under "Wages"

 

[Aly Jones]

This is really interesting, Jim. This is in the time period when ocean liners were still in business and some of titanic officers were still alive. There wouldn't be much difference in your pay slip jim compared with the officers?

 

[Jim Currie]

This is really interesting, Jim. This is in the time period when ocean liners were still in business and some of titanic officers were still alive. There wouldn't be much difference in your pay slip jim compared with the officers?

Not a lot, Aly. I was trained in exactly the same way by, and actually sailed with, men who were at sea as young Officers at the time of Titanic . These were in their late 50s - early 60s and had served in the MN in both WWs.
There would have been great deal of extra changes made between the wars. I suggest if you can get hold of an old enough "Ship Master's Business" training book or manual nearer to the time, you will probably find a sample pay slip there.

 

[Aly Jones]

Not a lot, Aly. I was trained in exactly the same way by, and actually sailed with, men who were at sea as young Officers at the time of Titanic . These were in their late 50s - early 60s and had served in the MN in both WWs.
There would have been great deal of extra changes made between the wars. I suggest if you can get hold of an old enough "Ship Master's Business" training book or manual nearer to the time, you will probably find a sample pay slip there.

Hi Jim,
I bet they had great stories to tell.

Where would be my best chances to find one of these books???

 

[Jim Currie]

Hi Jim,
I bet they had great stories to tell.

Where would be my best chances to find one of these books???

In the 50 odd years I was in the business, Aly, I heard some tales that would make a bald man's hair curle, particularly from mates who had survived the N. Atlantic and Murmansk convoys. I could tell you a few myself. Yet during all those years, I do not recall the names of Titanic, Carpathia or Californian ever being mentioned in asingle story or conversation.

As for where to find such a book? I'm afraid I can't help you there. My copy is 1950s vintage and you would need to hunt a seller of antique marine publications for anything older or even relevant.

 

[Steven Christian]

In the 50 odd years I was in the business, Aly, I heard some tales that would make a bald man's hair curle, particularly from mates who had survived the N. Atlantic and Murmansk convoys. I could tell you a few myself. Yet during all those years, I do not recall the names of Titanic, Carpathia or Californian ever being mentioned in asingle story or conversation.

As for where to find such a book? I'm afraid I can't help you there. My copy is 1950s vintage and you would need to hunt a seller of antique marine publications for anything older or even relevant.

I got to hear some of those stories too, first hand. Some were pretty brutal. Some humorous when it didn't involve the enemy. I was reading about the Malta runs awhile back..equally just as bad..some ways even worse.
Aly you could probably find some good Sea Stories in the link below.

Books about Sea stories (sorted by popularity)

Project Gutenberg offers 70,588 free eBooks for Kindle, iPad, Nook, Android, and iPhone.

www.gutenberg.org