Olympic Ballroom

[Dave Hudson]

I recently acquired Hull Down written by Sir Bertram Hayes in 1925. It is a thoroughly enjoyable book, for it combines humor and drama to create a detailed story of Olympic and other White Star liners.

One line on page 256, however, has puzzled me:

"We sailed from there (Belfast) for Southampton early in June (1920), with a number of distinguished guests on board. Among them was the late Viscount Pirrie, who was with us in a dual capacity, as director of the White Star Line and chairman of Harland & Wolff's. As usual, he was accompanied by Lady Pirrie and her sister, Miss Carlisle... Lady Pirrie...with the ship's Surgeon, Dr. Beaumont, for a dancing partner, opened the new ballroom which had been added to the luxuries of the Olympic."

What new ballroom? Does he refer to the Cafe Parisian (isn't that a bit small to be a "ballroom")? I figured that he might be talking about the A la Carte Restaurant, calling it new due to the expansion.

However, I thought that the Cafe and expanded restaurant was part of the 1912/1913 refit. In fact, I know it was because there is a Cafe P. description in a 1914 Passenger List I have. Wasn't the new Tourist Third Class being introduced about that time? Certainly they can't be talking about that, can they? A Tourist Third public room is no place for the likes of Lord and Lady Pirrie, new or not.

Or could it just be that Captain Hayes was getting forgetful in his old age when he wrote the book and he got his public rooms mixed up?

Any ideas?

David

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Good question, What new ballroom? I checked Simon Mills RMS OLYMPIC, The Old Reliable and saw no mention of it at all, though it went into some detail about the conversion from coal to oil.

I can't see the A' La Carte Restaurant being coverted as it was quite a source of revenue due to it's popularity. If anything was done, it would almost certainly have been with the First Class Dining Saloon.

Perhaps Mark Chirnside has something to offer here. He's researched the Olympic extensively.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart

 

[Mark Chirnside]

Hi <FONT COLOR="119911">David & Michael!

<FONT COLOR="119911">What new ballroom? Does he refer to the Cafe Parisian (isn't that a bit small to be a "ballroom")? I figured that he might be talking about the A la Carte Restaurant, calling it new due to the expansion.

On Olympic deckplans from 1920 which I have seen in the past (though I have not a copy due to their fragility) the Cafe Parisian (although of course there were various names) was labelled 'Dance floor' with the cafe name, if memory serves. This *may* have been what Hayes was referring to, I have wondered about this topic myself in the past.

I could not see a new ballroom aboard the ship and this is puzzling as the dining saloon's dance floor was not installed until 1928, when the bulkhead between the saloon and reception room was moved about three frames to give more space.

From memory, I have no sources of their being a dance floor in the &aacute; la Carte restaurant. There was some speculation that a ballroom had been fitted in between the dining saloon and reception room on one side, abreast the funnel casing, but as far as I know at the moment this does not show on deck plans (although I'll be gladly corrected). It would also seem strange as the reception room remained popular, the first class entrance hallways to D-deck being 'taken in' and giving more space to the grand staircase and reception room in the 1912/13 refit.

<FONT COLOR="119911">However, I thought that the Cafe and expanded restaurant was part of the 1912/1913 refit.

Yes.

<FONT COLOR="119911">Wasn't the new Tourist Third Class being introduced about that time? Certainly they can't be talking about that, can they? A Tourist Third public room is no place for the likes of Lord and Lady Pirrie, new or not.

If memory serves, Tourist Third Class was not introduced until 1925.

I can't see the A' La Carte Restaurant being coverted as it was quite a source of revenue due to it's popularity. If anything was done, it would almost certainly have been with the First Class Dining Saloon.

That's true, Olympic earned over &pound;4,500 in revenue during her first three round trips. Even in depression the restaurant on Olympic (and Majestic) was not 'shut down' until October 1934, not 1930 as had been sometimes suggested in the past.

Best regards,

Mark.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Thanks for the input Mark. Seems the Cafe Parisian would be awful small for a dancefloor, but when you only have so much room to play with, you have to make do.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart

 

[Mark Chirnside]

> Hi Mike!

It was quite small, certainly narrow, but if memory serves some chairs were added in the restaurant and reception room to increase seating capacity; the reception room could take some people from the Parisian Caf&eacute;, having after dinner coffee, allowing a little more floor space. But when the &aacute; la Carte restaurant properly re-opened in late 1920(/early 1921?) some chairs were removed again, presumably to the Parisian Caf&eacute;. (Though several name changes happened, I'll always refer to it as the original name in a narrative, as with the deck designations, as its far easier!)

Best regards,

Mark.

 

[Brian Hawley]

Folks I have a brochure of Olympic from the 20's that shows the dance floor added to the cafe. If I had a place to upload it on the web I would be glad to. It also has a great shot of the dance floor added to the dinning salon.

By the way David, in that same passage does Sanderson refer to Olympic as "their one ewe lamb" and then is corrected to "Ram" considering her war record?


Brian

 

[Colleen Collier]

Brian, contact Bill Wormstedt maybe. You showed me that brochure, and it was a very interesting to see how it had been modified.
Colleen

 

[Brian Hawley]

OK I believe I have figured out how to upload these images. Here goes.


You might notice in the first class dinning room the new indirect lighting and the removal of the original overhead lights. Also I believe the stanchions have been "Marbleized". The parquet floor is quite nice and allowed dinners to dance between courses.

Brian

 

[Brian Hawley]

OK, that worked so well, here is the restaurant's dance floor. Notice that through the open bay window (which I had never seen open before) the restaurant columns still have their gilded ribbons. I would love to know when this gold leafing was removed. Also notice that the partitions in Olympic's Cafe Parisian from 1913 are mostly gone to make way for the dancers.

Brian

 

[Nigel Bryant]

To Brain,

They are EXCELLENT pictures. Thank you for sharing them.

All the best,

Nigel

 

[Nathan Good]

To Brian:

These are very interesting pictures. Are there many other images in your brochure? Perhaps you wouldn't mind sharing those as well.

Thanks

N. Good

 

[Mark Chirnside]

Hi Brian!

Thanks for the pictures. Do you have the exact date, as I am trying to pinpoint the various decorations of the Cafe Parisian. I believe it was changed in 1920 *and* 1928 in however small or large details.

Best regards,

Mark.

 

[Dave Hudson]

Brian,

RE the Dining Saloon pic:

...eewwwwwww.....

Such a waste... Did they really think that the whole "trying to be something you're not" motif would really go unnoticed? I enjoyed the photo though. Thank you very much. It really gives you an idea of the true height of that room.

RE the Cafe photo:

Ditto

It's not as bad as the Dining Saloon though. I've never actually seen the bay window in the openned position before. Quite interesting. At least the restaurant seems fairly original.

If the Cafe looked like that by June, 1920, it could very possibly be the room mentioned by Hayes. True, the cafe was a cafe, and the restaurant was a restaurant, but with that parition openned, it could be well described as a large ballroom complex.

David

PS-

"By the way David, in that same passage does Sanderson refer to Olympic as "their one ewe lamb" and then is corrected to "Ram" considering her war record?"

Why yes, it's on the same page! This book never ceases to amuse.

 

[Brian Hawley]

David, I have read that the dance floor in the dinning room was in response to the fact White Star had to cannibalize cabins to create more private baths. This resulted in lighter passenger loads and thus less need for tables in the dinning room. (According to Maxton-Graham)

Regarding this issue I feel certain the question became, Why keep tables that would only stay empty? In my opinion I think empty tables would look very forlorn. A dance floor however, is a feature that other liners might not have and could be a great selling point.

By the way in regards to the "one ewe ram" I always did say that I have a photographic memory.

(It's just for subjects other than Titanic and the Vanderbilt's that my photographic memory is out of film!)


Brian


As a post script to Nathan, if you like I will scan and upload unique photos from all 6 of my Olympic brochures. For commonly available photos I will cite page numbers from T books so as not to clutter up the board.

For Mark it is tough to date some of my brochures. I will say however that I believe the photos of the dance floors on "D" and "B" decks were part of a brochure produced after the Klysant takeover. White Star used some stock photos so this same late 20s publication shows the boat deck with 16 lifeboats, and an exterior shot of O passing Ellis Island on her maiden voyage.

 

[Mark Chirnside]

Hi!

I guess that 1928-9 is a good bet -- the 1928 dance floor and perhaps the Caf&eacute; was modified then. It looks more modern.

Although less tables might have been needed in the saloon, following the addition of the dancefloor the forward bulkheads of the saloon were moved forward about nine feet to give the saloon more space.

Best regards,

Mark.