A few days ago I posted a message concerning two passengers, William Gillespie and Marius Peterson. I believe that there is sufficient evidence to question whether either man sailed. So far, nobody has replied either on list or privately. Perhaps I need to qualify my opinions.
I am aware that William Gillespie's mother received money from the Mansion House Fund, but to me that is not proof that he sailed, merely that he was believed at that time to have sailed. I am not aware of any documentary evidence that he did and the White Star Line contract ticket list shows that he received a refund. If this man sailed, why did he receive a refund?
The administrators of the Mansion House fund ultimately relied upon information obtained by the Registrar of Shipping & Seamen in London, when deciding who was entitled to receive money. The RGSS certainly conducted far-reaching enquiries in accordance with their legal responsibilities but their conclusion as to who sailed and subsequently died or survived was only as good as the information they were given at the time. One small slip and William Gillespie could have ended up in the wrong column, and his 'case' would have been closed -- died, no further enquiries. Again I have to ask - if William Gillespie sailed, WHY did he receive a refund and who therefore paid his fare?? Why is no payment shown in the White Star Line's financial record of tickets purchased? Did he travel gratis? If so, why?
Marius Peterson/en also received a refund, less a small amount representing the commission - in today's jargon, a 'booking fee.' There is no evidence that he sailed.. no body was found and his full identity appears to be unknown. I don't believe he set foot on board. No payment was made from the Mansion House Fund and again... if he did sail, why did he receive a refund and who paid his fare??
I'm not entirely sure why my original posting didn't receive a single response, when it seems to be such an important issue. I can't believe it is apathy! We are all in this together - it may be 90 years, but the research is still continuing and new information is appearing all the time. Is my opinion so ridiculous that it doesn't warrant a reply?
I am concerned that some of the problem may lie in the fact that anyone who does not possess a FULL copy of the Contract Ticket List from NARA, may not have the faintest idea what I am talking about!
If you have a small-sized copy, comprising only the passenger names, then you do NOT have the full document! The complete document comprises left-hand sheets with names and other information, and right-hand sheets containing the financial analysis. Both are vital. Anyone with a small sized left-hand sheet (normal office paper size....and I know there are a number of people who fall into this category who had earlier believed that they had the full document) does NOT have the full document. The left-hand sheet ends with a column headed 'refunds.' This column is vital! That is where I am obtaining the information that these people were given refunds. At least three of the most active writers/researchers on this message board have already discovered to their horror that they do not have a full copy! NARA clearly has supplied only what they considered people required, when fulfilling requests for copies of the Contract Ticket List.
Like I said, I recieved not one single reply to my original posting. We are all very busy people but I do feel that if we are accurately to represent this amazing and tragic story to the rest of the world then we have to be sure for ourselves exactly who died and who survived, and who we are not really sure about.
If you think I am wrong, please do write and tell me so! I'm very thick skinned! Surely we need to bounce ideas from each other, especially in cases like this. If you think I am totally, irreversibly cracked, please write and tell me that too!
I am aware that William Gillespie's mother received money from the Mansion House Fund, but to me that is not proof that he sailed, merely that he was believed at that time to have sailed. I am not aware of any documentary evidence that he did and the White Star Line contract ticket list shows that he received a refund. If this man sailed, why did he receive a refund?
The administrators of the Mansion House fund ultimately relied upon information obtained by the Registrar of Shipping & Seamen in London, when deciding who was entitled to receive money. The RGSS certainly conducted far-reaching enquiries in accordance with their legal responsibilities but their conclusion as to who sailed and subsequently died or survived was only as good as the information they were given at the time. One small slip and William Gillespie could have ended up in the wrong column, and his 'case' would have been closed -- died, no further enquiries. Again I have to ask - if William Gillespie sailed, WHY did he receive a refund and who therefore paid his fare?? Why is no payment shown in the White Star Line's financial record of tickets purchased? Did he travel gratis? If so, why?
Marius Peterson/en also received a refund, less a small amount representing the commission - in today's jargon, a 'booking fee.' There is no evidence that he sailed.. no body was found and his full identity appears to be unknown. I don't believe he set foot on board. No payment was made from the Mansion House Fund and again... if he did sail, why did he receive a refund and who paid his fare??
I'm not entirely sure why my original posting didn't receive a single response, when it seems to be such an important issue. I can't believe it is apathy! We are all in this together - it may be 90 years, but the research is still continuing and new information is appearing all the time. Is my opinion so ridiculous that it doesn't warrant a reply?
I am concerned that some of the problem may lie in the fact that anyone who does not possess a FULL copy of the Contract Ticket List from NARA, may not have the faintest idea what I am talking about!
If you have a small-sized copy, comprising only the passenger names, then you do NOT have the full document! The complete document comprises left-hand sheets with names and other information, and right-hand sheets containing the financial analysis. Both are vital. Anyone with a small sized left-hand sheet (normal office paper size....and I know there are a number of people who fall into this category who had earlier believed that they had the full document) does NOT have the full document. The left-hand sheet ends with a column headed 'refunds.' This column is vital! That is where I am obtaining the information that these people were given refunds. At least three of the most active writers/researchers on this message board have already discovered to their horror that they do not have a full copy! NARA clearly has supplied only what they considered people required, when fulfilling requests for copies of the Contract Ticket List.
Like I said, I recieved not one single reply to my original posting. We are all very busy people but I do feel that if we are accurately to represent this amazing and tragic story to the rest of the world then we have to be sure for ourselves exactly who died and who survived, and who we are not really sure about.
If you think I am wrong, please do write and tell me so! I'm very thick skinned! Surely we need to bounce ideas from each other, especially in cases like this. If you think I am totally, irreversibly cracked, please write and tell me that too!