Order of lifeboat launching

[David Garley]

Sorry if I've missed this somewhere, but I'm looking for info concerning the order in which the lifeboats were launched and the number of occupants. Can anybody help, please?
Also, a thought....... If it were possible to be transported back in time onto the Titanic knowing what we know now, would it be possible to survive the sinking? For instance, would a 2nd or 3rd class passenger have access to some of the lifeboats that were launched only partially full?

 

[Lester Mitcham]

Hi David,

Try this link: http://home.att.net/~wormstedt/
for an updated study of the lifeboat launch sequence.

The number of occupants per boat is open to debate. - There are a number of sets of figures.

To your question: Yes 2nd and 3rd Class had access to some of the lifeboats that were launched only partially full.

 

[Bill Wormstedt]

Thanks for mentioning my site, Lester.

Co-authors George Behe, Tad Fitch and I have discussed re-writing our article that is mentioned at my site, and posting to the web, but time is just too short for some of us right now. We do want to add some additional data, but nothing that changes our conclusions as to the order.

 

[Lester Mitcham]

Hi Bill,

You are welcome. A very informative page.

With regard to the after-starboard boats I have been looking at the various comments in Gracie and I'm having some difficulty. What portion of their crew/passengers do you believe each of those boats took onboard at the Boat deck and at A-deck respectively?

It has always seemed to me that it was somewhat daft loading those boats from A-deck as given the stairway access 2nd and 3rd Class passengers [in particular the women and children] had little hope of accessing that section of A-deck unless they had come up the after 1st Class stairway, or like Edith Russell when down the stairs near the Lounge Bar, but which look to be difficult to locate on the Boat deck level [?]. - I think this is why most of those in those boats were men.

Regards,
Lester

 

[Bill Wormstedt]

I don't really recall running across any kind of break-down of people from A Deck vs the Boat Deck. Other than they filled what they could from the upper deck, then lowered down to A.

 

[Lester Mitcham]

Thanks Bill,

Does that apply to all 4 boats? - 9, 11, 13 and 15? - I'm finding what the various crew said [particularly with regard to boat 9] conflicting.

Lester

 

[Christian J Cody]

Here I have the order of the Lifeboats Launched and additional information.
Lifeboat 7
Launched at 12:45 AM
Contained 26 People
4% of Survivors

23 First Class Passengers
3 Deck Crew

15 Men
11 Women

Picked up by Carpathia at 5:00 AM
6th Rescued

Lifeboat 6
Launched at 12:55 AM
Contained 26 People
4% of Survivors

21 First Class Passengers
1 Third Class Passenger
2 Deck Crew
2 Restaurant Staff

5 Men
21 Women

Picked up by Carpathia at 6:00 AM
8th Rescued

Lifeboat 5
Launched at 12:55 AM
Contained 38 People
5% of Survivors

30 First Class Passengers
2 Deck Crew
1 Engine Crew
5 Victualling Crew

21 Men
16 Women
1 Child

Picked up By Carpathia at 5:05 AM
5th Rescued

Lifeboat 3
Launched at 1:00 AM
Contained 39 People
5% of Survivors

27 First Class Passengers
2 Deck Crew
10 Engine Crew

26 Men
12 Women
1 Child

Picked up by Carpathia at 5:55 AM
7th to be rescued

Lifeboat 1
Launched at 1:10 AM
Contained 12 People
2% of Survivors

5 First Class Passengers
2 Deck Crew
5 Engine Crew

10 Men
2 Women

Picked up by Carpathia at 4:40 AM
2nd to be rescued

Lifeboat 8
Launched at 1:15 AM
Contained 26 People
4% of Survivors

23 First Class Passengers
2 Deck Crew
1 Victualling Crew

3 Men
23 Women

Picked up by Carpathiaat 7:00 AM
11th to be rescued

Lifeboat 10
Launched at 1:20 AM
Contained 34 People
5% of Survivors

8 First Class Passengers
17 Second Class Passengers
6 Third Class Passengers
1 Deck Crew
1 Engine Crew
1 Victualling Crew

4 Men
24 Women
6 Children

Picked up by Carpathia at 7:05 AM
12th to be Rescued

Lifeboat 14
Launched at 1:27 AM
Contained 44 People
6% of Survivors

4 First Class Passengers
24 Second Class Passengers
6 Third Class Passengers
4 Deck Crew
2 Engine Crew
4 Victualling Crew

14 Men
20 Women
10 Children

Picked up by Carpathia at 7:05 AM
13th to be Rescued

Lifeboat 16
Launched at 1:28 AM
Contained 37 People
5% of Survivors

3 Second Class Passengers
24 Third Class Passengers
2 Deck Crew
1 Engine Crew
7 Victualling Crew

6 Men
30 Women
1 Child

Picked up by Carpathia at 7:30 AM
16th to be rescued

Lifeboat 9
Launced at 1:30 AM
Contained 45 People
6% of Survivors

6 First Class Passengers
19 Second Class Passengers
3 Third Class Passengers
4 Deck Crew
4 Engine Crew
8 Victualling Crew

25 Men
19 Women
1 Child

Picked up by Carpathia at 5:00 AM
4th to be rescued

Lifeboat 12
Launched at 1:30 AM
Contained 23 People
3% of Survivors

1 First Class Passenger
18 Second Class Passengers
2 Third Class Passengers
2 Deck Crew

3 Men
19 Women
1 Child

Picked up by Carpathia at 8:30 AM
18th to be rescued

Lifeboat 11
Launched at 1:35 AM
Contained 55 People
8% of Survivors

6 First Class Passengers
15 Second Class Passengers
7 Third Class Passengers
2 Deck Crew
25 Victualling Crew

22 Men
27 Women
6 Children

Picked up by Carpathia at 8:00 AM
17th to be rescued

Lifeboat 13
Launched at 1:40 AM
Contained 66 People
9% of Survivors

1 First Class Passenger
12 Second Class Passengers
30 Third Class Passengers
3 Deck Crew
5 Engine Crew
14 Victualling Crew
1 Restaurant Staff

36 Men
21 Women
9 Children

Picked up by Carpathia at 4:45 AM
3rd to be rescued

Lifeboat 15
Launched at 1:40 AM
Contained 70 People
10% of Survivors

1 First Class Passenger
1 Second Class Passenger
37 Third Class Passengers
1 Deck Crew
17 Engine Crew
13 Victualling Crew

52 Men
12 Women
6 Children

Picked up by Carpathia at 7:30 AM
15th to be rescued

Lifeboat 2
Launched at 1:45 AM
Contained 17 People
2% of Survivors

7 First Class Passengers
6 Third Class Passengers
2 Deck Crew
2 Victualling Crew

5 Men
9 Women
3 Children

Picked up by Carpathia at 4:10 AM
1st to be rescued

Lifeboat 4
Launched at 1:50 AM
Contained 49 People
7% of Survivors

25 First Class Passengers
8 Second Class Passengers
4 Deck Crew
10 Engine Crew
2 Victualling Crew

16 Men
26 Women
7 Children

Picked up by Carpathia at 6:55 AM
10th to be rescued

Collapsible C
Launched 2:00 AM
Contained 46 People
6% of Survivors

2 First Class Passengers
38 Third Class Passengers
1 Deck Crew
3 Engine Crew
2 Victualling Crew

13 Men
18 Women
15 Children

Picked up by the Carpathia at 6:30 AM
9th to be rescued

Collapsible D
Launched 2:05 AM
Contained 21 People
3% of Survivors

7 First Class Passengers
2 Second Class Passengers
9 Third Class Passengers

5 Men
13 Women
3 Children

Picked up by Carpathia at 7:00 AM
14th to be rescued

Collapsible A (Swamped)
Cast off at 2:12 AM
Contained 11 People
2% of Survivors

2 First Class Passengers
5 Third Class Passengers
2 Engine Crew
3 Victualling Crew

10 Men
1 Woman

Passengers were rescued by Lifeboat 12

Collapsible B (Overturned)
Cast off at 2:13 AM
Contained 25 People

2 First Class Passengers
1 Second Class Passenger
4 Third Class Passengers
1 Deck Crew
11 Engine Crew
6 Victualling Crew

25 Men

Rescued by Lifeboats 4 and 14

 

[Lester Mitcham]

Hello Christian,

I guess you have names to go with those numbers. Could you please either list them on E-T or send me a Private Message. Thank you.

With regard to the launch times you might want to look at: http://home.comcast.net/~bwormst/titanic/lifeboats/lifeboats.htm. It offers a very informative insight for a Revised Lifeboat Launching Sequence.

 

[Bill Wormstedt]

Thanks for posting that link, Lester - you beat me to it!

Christian - where are you getting your information?

 

[Senan Molony]

It is "modern researchers" who decided they knew better than Albert Pearcey and moved the departure for Collapsible C to close to the end-time.

The British Inquiry put its departure at 1.40am as Pearcey repeatedly stated in evidence, but the modernists knew better, setting further traps for the unwary.

FACT: None of the passengers known to have escaped in Collapsible C have ever spoken of mass disorder or shootings prior to their launch.

I have a number of their accounts. Woolner does not specify what collapsible he is talking about, although Senator Smith asked whether it could be the first starboard collapsible.

Senator Smith might want a lot of things to be a particular way, being out to nail responsibility where it resided in his pre-Inquiry declarations, but that's beside the point. Woolner just wasn't in a position to answer the question.

The getting of A from the officers' roof down to the boat deck was obviously a major operation. When it did get down, the boat was swarmed.

If Pearcey is right about C going at 1.40, and Brown is right about it taking 10-12 minutes to get A down, then we are nicely up to 1.50 or 1.52 by the time A is down on the deck.

Plenty of time for argy-bargy and shots.

We know it didn't launch properly, but lay there on the deck for some time, occupied, cleared, re-occupied, and finally devastated by the onrush of the sea.

Eustace Phillip Snow in his deposition [edited here by me] intimates another reason, besides the inability to hoist a boat to davits and overside when it is full of people on the deck:

"I helped launch the starboard collapsible boat, but she stove her bow in when she fell on the boat deck, and she turned over by the rush of water."

There are very few commentators on 'A' for the very simple reason that most in the vicinity were speedily drowned. However there are some.

I would meanwhile be interested to see any clear evidence for gunplay or serious argy-bargy when either Ismay or Collapsible C was demonstrably still on the ship.

Of course, it was all a long time ago...

Wasn't there myself, mind you. So I'm not going to make any swaggering pronouncements about the circumstances of the man's departure. Happy Christmas.

 

[Teri Lynn Milch]

“FACT: None of the passengers known to have escaped in Collapsible C have ever spoken of mass disorder or shootings prior to their launch.”

Right on the dot!

We must have spent our day doing the same thing. Here are my notes on almost everyone in boat C:

1)William Carter — not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given.
2)Joseph Abraham — not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given.
3)Gerios Assaf - not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given.
4)Eugenie Baclini - not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given. Was 3 yrs old.
5)Helene Baclini — not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given. Was 9 mos old.
6)Maria Baclini - not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given. Was 5 yrs old.
7)Solomon Baclini - not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given.
8)Emily Badman - not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given.
9)Lee Bing - not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given. Chinaman.
10)Aiyub Dahir - not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given. Was 14 yrs old.
11)Margaret Devaney - not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given. Was 18 yrs old.
12)Choong Foo - not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given. Was 13 yrs old. Chinaman.
13)Frank Goldsmith - not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given.
14)William Carter — not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given.
15)Joseph Abraham — not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given.
16)Gerios Assaf - not found in either Enquiry. No tesimony given.
17)Eugenie Baclini - not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given. Was 3 yrs old.
18)Helene Baclini — not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given. Was 9 mos old.
19)Maria Baclini - not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given. Was 5 yrs old.
20)Solomon Baclini - not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given.
21)Emily Badman - not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given.
22)Lee Bing - not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given. Chinaman.
23)Aiyub Dahir - not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given. Was 14 yrs old.
24)Margaret Devaney - not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given. Was 18 yrs old.
25)Choong Foo - not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given. Was 13 yrs old. Chinaman.
26)Frank Goldsmith - not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given.
27)Frank Goldsmith Jr. - not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given. Was 9 yrs old.
28)Ling Hee - not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given. Chinaman.
29)May Howard — Found in British Enquiry. Testified mostly to steerage passengers being locked below decks.
30)Abraham Hyman - not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given.
31)Mary Joseph - not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given. Was 2 yrs old.
32)Peter Joseph - not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given.
33)Ali Lam - not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given. Chinaman.
34)Gerios Moubarek - not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given. Chinaman.
35)Albert Pearcey — British Enquiry. This 3rd class pantryman passed the 3rd class passengers through the emergency door which lead to the first class saloon companion (deck E) which lead to the alleyway to first class door. That's how many of the 3rd class passengers got to the boat deck! This passenger said he saw the keel visible.
36)Albert Weikman - not found in either Enquiry. No testimony given, but affidavit given, and was printed in “The Ismay Line.”

There were a total of 45 people in this Collapsible Boat C. Others I did not list were 3rd class children, young adults, and adults who were not asked to give testimony.

 

[Bill Wormstedt]

Hmmm, I see Molony chooses to call us "modern researchers", in a derogatory fashion. Aren't we ALL (including him), modern researchers?

He said "FACT: None of the passengers known to have escaped in Collapsible C have ever spoken of mass disorder or shootings prior to their launch."

Try NO FACT. Take a look at the testimonies of Woolner or Thayer. And it's obvious you don't have Mrs. Goldsmith's account or you wouldn't be sitting there with your foot in your mouth again.

Yes, Pearcey stated 1:40. However, this time was from a passengers watch - and who knows what time they may have been keeping! Had they set it back before going to bed? Possibly, no way to tell.

We also have Rowe's statement that the ship sank 20 minutes before the ship sank - pointing more to 2:00, instead of 11:40.

And Woolner, though he doesn't mention C by name, is obviously talking about it. He mentions "when that boat seemed to be quite full, and was ready to be swung over the side, and was to be lowered away". Obviously cannot be A, as A was never 'quite full' and ready to be lowered away, and definitely was a collapsible as opposed to a wooden lifeboat.

Regarding Snow's statement, he does state the starboard collapsible. However, he also states "she turned over". Sounds a bit more like Collapsible B, possibly?

 

[Senan Molony]

Hi Bill,

Thayer didn't give testimony. Look up what the word 'testimony' means. He wrote a book in 1940.

We have Woolner, talking about an indeterminate starboard collapsible, either A or C.

If it is C, then Woolner, the sole person to give *testimony* about attendant disorder, is contradicted by ahem, Ismay, Brown, Rowe, Weikman and Pearcey.

That's 5-1, Bill. The five all know what boat they were talking about - Woolner doesn't.

But Bill Wormstedt does! How do you do it, my friend?

A person (Pearcey) who was there at the time, April 1912, said repeatedly that C left at 1.40pm.

You say this watch was on a passenger. It actually isn't specified Bill, but you must be right, eh?

This man's claim, against interpreting Woolner for C rather than A, is supported by Ismay. He is looking back at the Titanic while Woolner's collapsible is still on board. How can it be C?

You, who weren't there, claim that C left at the end time. You took it on yourself to change the British Inquiry time for its departure from 11.40 to around 2am.

You are deciding, meanwhile, that a person also took it on themselves to put their watch back 20 minutes prior to retiring... a rather dubious proposition.

But you need it to be that way, just as you need Woolner to be right in a choice that is at very best 50:50, and you think this one piece of *testimony* trumps five others that are totally to the contrary?

You win 1-5?

Have a GREAT 2006, Bill. You've pulled a spectacular piece of certainty for the end of 2005... must be nice for you!

 

[Senan Molony]

Bill, Old Man,

You seem pretty, uh, certain, from your post above, that the Goldsmiths were in Collapsible C.

How do you know?

Frank Goldsmith in the thread below, says his grandfather and Dad "both believed they were in Boat D":

https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/discus/messages/5665/64.html?948628740

He says: " It has always been "known" in our family that dad and grandmother were on D."

Dennis Foley then posted that he had the pleasure of meeting Frank Goldsmith at the 1973 THS Convention "and he clearly indicated to us that he escaped in Boat D.

"He even showed us the strange path the boat took--instead of rowing away in a straight line it went back towards the stern and then crossed over to the starboard side!

"Also, someone in the crowd asked about Edith Evans and he responded that he remembered a woman approaching the boat but for some reason being left behind."

But never what the survivors say, Bill. You are a "modern researcher" and I am sure you are right!

Not.

 

[Senan Molony]

Bill Wormstedt opined:

And Woolner, though he doesn't mention C by name, is obviously talking about it. He mentions "when that boat seemed to be quite full, and was ready to be swung over the side, and was to be lowered away". Obviously cannot be A, as A was never 'quite full' and ready to be lowered away, and definitely was a collapsible as opposed to a wooden lifeboat.

The only 'obviously' is that Bill Wormstedt is confused.

This is the actual quote, and it is quite clear that in relation to the boat cited, Woolner is talking about Collapsible D:

Mr Woolner: Then they eventually lowered all the wooden lifeboats on the port side, and then they got out a collapsible and hitched her onto the most forward davits and they filled that up, mostly with steerage women and children, and one seaman, and a steward, and I think one other man - but I am not quite certain about that - and when that boat [Collapsible D, still on the port side] seemed to be quite full, and was ready to be swung over the side, and was to be lowered away, I said to Steffanson: "There is nothing more for us to do here." Oh, no; something else happened while that boat was
being loaded. There was a sort of scramble on the starboard side, and I looked around and I saw two flashes of a pistol in the air.

Woolner at no point says the starboard collapsible he saw was "about to be lowered away." Sorry Bill, you are wrong.

You also tell us, with certainty, that A was "never quite full."

I am afraid you are contradicted by Edward Brown, who was at Collapsible A, unlike yourself:

10652. Was there anybody in there (A)?
BROWN – There was a lot scrambled into it then; when the sea came on to the deck they all scrambled into the boat.
10653. How many? Can you give us an idea? – I have no idea – practically full. The boat was practically full, when the sea came into it, and washed them all out.

Sorry Bill, wrong again.

And I've more!