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Samuel Halpern

Samuel Halpern

Member
There are many instances where Rostron said the field seen on the eastern side went from NW to SE, including in his report to Cunard on Apr 19th where he wrote:
"The ice field trending from NW round by W to S to SE as far as we could see either way." I guess you dismiss this because it doesn't fit in with your view.
On the western side it trended more NNW to SSE in vicinity of the wreck site, and there it was about 5 miles wide. Even in his hydrographic office report, Lord mentioned the field being about 5 miles in width. He also mention Frankfurt coming down from the NNW paralleling the ice as he was coming out of the ice around noontime that day. You like to show this field you call a barrier as this thin ribbon about 2 or 3 miles wide running due N to S and coming to an end a few miles south of the wreck. Yet, Lord managed to cross this barrier three times, the second time allegedly running at full speed.

You also refer to Birma as confirming the southern extremity of the ice field and emphasized 'not the pack ice' as if these people were talking about two different things. Rostron specifically mentioned 'south point pack ice' in his message to Olympic. Mount Temple's Capt. Moore consistently was talking about 'this pack' being 5 to 6 miles wide up near the wreck area. And by the way, the rough chart the Birma's Capt. Stulping bought into showed, more or less, a boot shaped field much wider than that thin ribbon that you keep showing. Also, Carpathia passed Birma as the later was coming round the southern end of the pack sometime around noon according to what Rostron wrote. The ice was not stationary. It was moving and changing shape by the action of current and wind.

For whatever its worth, and for those who have not seen it before, this is a cropped image from the rough chart showing Birma's path that Stulping sign off on. (I added those red lines of latitude.)
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Jim Currie

Jim Currie

Senior Member
There are many instances where Rostron said the field seen on the eastern side went from NW to SE, including in his report to Cunard on Apr 19th where he wrote:
"The ice field trending from NW round by W to S to SE as far as we could see either way." I guess you dismiss this because it doesn't fit in with your view.
On the western side it trended more NNW to SSE in vicinity of the wreck site, and there it was about 5 miles wide. Even in his hydrographic office report, Lord mentioned the field being about 5 miles in width. He also mention Frankfurt coming down from the NNW paralleling the ice as he was coming out of the ice around noontime that day. You like to show this field you call a barrier as this thin ribbon about 2 or 3 miles wide running due N to S and coming to an end a few miles south of the wreck. Yet, Lord managed to cross this barrier three times, the second time allegedly running at full speed.

You also refer to Birma as confirming the southern extremity of the ice field and emphasized 'not the pack ice' as if these people were talking about two different things. Rostron specifically mentioned 'south point pack ice' in his message to Olympic. Mount Temple's Capt. Moore consistently was talking about 'this pack' being 5 to 6 miles wide up near the wreck area. And by the way, the rough chart the Birma's Capt. Stulping bought into showed, more or less, a boot shaped field much wider than that thin ribbon that you keep showing. Also, Carpathia passed Birma as the later was coming round the southern end of the pack sometime around noon according to what Rostron wrote. The ice was not stationary. It was moving and changing shape by the action of current and wind.

For whatever its worth, and for those who have not seen it before, this is a cropped image from the rough chart showing Birma's path that Stulping sign off on. (I added those red lines of latitude.)
View attachment 77553
Let's blow your smoke screen away, Sam.
Of course the FIELD extended NW to SE for Rostron because he met it in the form of six icebergs as he headed in a northwesterly direct to ward Boxhall. These icebergs were part of the Field. So what? I have pointed this out to you several times before.
On the western side it did not trend SSE as you declared but tapered away toward the SW. Just as Captain Stulping described it. Unlike you, he had actually circumnavigated it, How was the south end trending?
Oh! and Stulping showed the body of the barrier clear to the east of the 50th meridian... how was that possible with your south setting wind and current?

Then there is your own navy man. What did he know bout ice description? After all , he headed his plot:
Sam again

Folks in glass houses should not throw stones Sam. Your Captain Lord reference carefully avoided two other things the man said under oath.
The first one being that his first crossing of the field - barrier (pack) was diagonal and it took him 20 minutes at dead slow speed to do so and the second that he told his questioner of Day 8 of the US Inquiry:
Q: how large an area would it cover the next morning?
A: all suppose about 26 miles long and from 1 to 2 miles wide."

You also ignore the fact that he crossed the second time at full speed, diagonally toward the Carpathia, and that it took him half an hour to do that. Work it out for yourself.
As for Mount Temple? His reference was the Carpathia to the SE... Again - diagonally across the ice barrier.
How I describe the constituents of an Ice Field is how I was trained to describe them as a ship's Met Officer and that was that a "Field" of sea ice is not homogeneous as far as the dimensions of individual pieces within it are. Only heavy, close, pack ice would be a barrier to progress. I'm sure you must have read that somewhere and simply forgot?
Incidentally, the "King's Dictionary" in use in 1912 describes "Field Ice - large masses of detatched ice in arctic regions". Ship captains treated Field Ice according to its make-up, the conditions, and the time of day in which they encountered it and within the capabilities of their vessel.
To reiterate : Pack Ice = areas of ice floes packed together to form a barrier.
Rostron said many things... including that his vessel was moving at an outrageous pace.
 

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