Passenger not listed


May 6, 2003
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I found this article in the SERB WORLD magazine, i checked all the passenger lists on this site and found no trace of her. WHY?
<table border=1>[tr][td]
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passenger
titanic Serb.doc (20.0 k)[/td][/tr][/table]​
 
May 6, 2003
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I had to type out the article by hand because this site only allows 20.0k of information (which is rediculous)but the article is taken word for word, i did not change anything.

I don't have the 1987 edition of Serb World, but if I get a hand on it i will post the article.
 
Jul 9, 2000
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Easley South Carolina
Stefan, if you would name the alleged passenger in question here, or provide a direct link to the article itself, that might help some. Don't take this personally, but I'm very leery of attachments, especially ones that ask me to download files which I have no way of knowing whether or not they're infected with a virus. I don't think you'd try to knowingly burn anyone, but you never know what sort of melicious file might be lurking unseen in your files that you wouldn't even know about.

On the matter of the article itself, you should be extremely cautious of posting any in their entirity on this website as it may be under copyright protection. Anything from 1987 certainly would be so befor posting, you must secure permission to do so from the owner of the copyright. This is an issue that we take very seriously on this forum for ethical as well as legal reasons.

As to the passenger lists, if the name of this person doesn't appear there, then it's simply because he or she just wasn't there. Articles both current and contemporary to the time often showcase any number of claims which on close inspection turn out to be utterly bogus. This is a much more common problem then is generally known. If you want to get a good snapshot of the problems that attend researching accurate passenger lists, you may want to get a copy of "Who Sailed On Titanic" by Debbie Beavis.
 
May 6, 2003
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Her name is Milka Desich! Apparently she was in third class and survived. Her daughters wrote a story about her experiance in 1987. The article is from the Serb World USA magazine, January/Febuary 1998 Edition. The article is not from the internet i scanned it onto my computer but it was too big to post here, so i typed it out and thats what the post is. Any other questions let me know.
 
Jul 9, 2000
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Stefan, it doesn't matter where the article is from. What matters in the legal sense is that it's under the protection of copyright and cannotbe posted anywhere without the permission of whoever owns the copyright. This can be a real minefield and you don't want to end up on the wrong side of it. You can read more about copyright law at these websites:

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/Human_Rights/geneva1.html
http://www.benedict.com/
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/ch5.html
http://fairuse.stanford.edu/

Regarding Milka Desich, the reason she's not listed on the passenger list is because she wasn't there. While her daughters may have genuinely beleived the story, the sad reality is that there have been lots of people who have made similar claims, all of which just weren't true. Sorry about that.
 
Jun 4, 2000
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Stefan, is 'Desich' her married name or the name she was travelling under? If it's her married name, do you know what her family name was back in 1912?

ps I don't think it's 'ridiculous' that uploaded items are limited to 20kb. After all, who's paying for hosting them? Not the person uploading them.
happy.gif
 
May 6, 2003
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i listed the source where i got it from and gave them full credit why would there be a problem for copyright?

PS. I will try to find the 1987 edition to read her story.
 
Jul 20, 2000
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Stefan,

Not only does the lady's name not appear on any Passenger List, she is not named on the List of Surviving 3rd Class Passengers landed from the Carpathia.

Have you searched the Ellis Island Records for her name? If she is not named there then she is unlikely to have arrived in America via New York.
 

Dave Gittins

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Mar 16, 2000
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I think I can sink this one. It's a matter of spelling.

Ellis Island has one Milka Desic, who arrived on 24 October 1913. She sailed on SS France out of Le Havre. She left a mother, whose first name I can't read, in Brno. She was going to join her husband in Duluth, Minnesota. She was aged 32. She is shown as an Austrian subject, born in Croatia.
 
Jul 9, 2000
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>>i listed the source where i got it from and gave them full credit why would there be a problem for copyright? <<

Because you have no legal right to post the whole thing without the copyright holders permission. If you check out the links I gave you, you should have no trouble finding out the limitations of "Fair Use." At most, you can quote a small section of the article, generally no more then 10% of it, so long as you also give a proper cite of who the author is.

You cannot post the whole thing.

Stefan, please understand that I'm not trying to beat up on you, rather I'm trying to save you...as well as this forum's editor...an unpleasant encounter with a civil lawsuit.
 
Jul 12, 2003
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In case it helps or makes a difference, I want to point out something from a genealogical sense when researching passengers. Sometimes when a married woman is travelling alone, she will use her maiden name. If her children are with her, she could still be travelling under her maiden name, yet the kids will have the fathers surname. Also, this would probably only occur in third class with the immigrant travellers.

I never knew this in the past but I learned it from a genealogy class while researching Ellis Island immigrants.
 
Jul 12, 2003
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I wanted to post a site for those of you thinking that a person may be on the Titanic and couldn't find him/her.

This site helps you locate Ellis Island arrivals. Using it to find your person is much easier than going to Ellisislandrecoreds.org directly. It kind of narrows down the search field. It will connect you to the Ellis Island site if info is found.

www.jewishgen.org/databases/eidb/ellis.html

Don't assume that because you see "jewish" in the URL that it only covers those of of the Jewish religion. I found several of my ancestors using this route quickly.
 
Jul 20, 2000
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Deborah,

With the Syrian passengers several married ladies travelled using the Syrian custom of giving their husband's given name as their surname. - So Catherine [nee Rizk; wife of Peter Joseph] travelled as Mrs Peter. - Her children were also ticketed under the name Peter.
 
Jul 20, 2000
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Not that I am aware of.

I'm not sure about this one but I have been told that in Sweden a child [I understand that as adult child] could use either the mother's maiden name or the father's surname as their surname. - Again I'm not sure, but it was suggested to me that the same applied in Denmark and Norway.

In Switzerland a husband added his wife's maiden name to form a hyphenated surname, but children [as in adult children?] only had the father's surname.
 

James Smith

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Dec 5, 2001
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My mother-in-law and my own grandmother both do a lot of Danish genealogy, and they tell me that last names usually changed from generation to generation: if the father's name was Mads and the son's name was Anders, the child's full name would be Anders Madsen. However, Anders' son Johan would bear the surname Andersen, and Johan's kids would bear the surname Johansen. What a mess!

Jim
 
Jul 12, 2003
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I think that is true....I've been doing genealogy for years (vital records, manifests, death indexes, etc.)...lots of times a surname is changed to make it easier to pronounce or spell....some immigrants just wanted to make a complete new start and changing the surname a bit was one way....sometimes (as in manifests and census records) the guy taking down the info just wrote things phonetically...so the best thing to do when searching a name that may have another spelling is to use the soundex code...you will get a large variety of ways the original name has appeared.
 

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