Passenger Safety Procedures

[Bob Read]

In the event of high seas and/or severe weather, would passengers have been prevented from using the passenger promenades or weather decks? The reason I ask is that it seems unlikely that an emergency boat would be launched in those conditions for a man overboard.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I'm only guessing but I believe under poor weather conditions passengers and non-essential crew might have been officially prevented from using the promenade areas. But human nature being what it is, I expect a few 'rebels' might have flouted the rules and gone outside; that might have included a teenage or younger child who might have gone overboard.

Or, an essential crew member might have fallen overboard while performing his required tasks.

So, I expect that in such cases the Emergency Cutter would have to be launched.

 

[Bob Read]

So, I expect that in such cases the Emergency Cutter would have to be launched.

I don’t have any references but I would imagine there were conditions where attempting a probably futile rescue in a small emergency boat in high seas would be considered a suicide mission where not only the man overboard is lost but so is the emergency boat and crew. I can’t see a responsible OOW sending crew to a certain death for no benefit to anyone.

 

[Mike Spooner]

If the emergency cutter boats were left hanging over the side. Was there a arrangement to prevent them from swinging about?

 

[Bob Read]

If the emergency cutter boats were left hanging over the side. Was there an arrangement to prevent them from swinging about?

Yes. They were secured by three outboard gripes.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I don’t have any references but I would imagine there were conditions where attempting a probably futile rescue in a small emergency boat in high seas would be considered a suicide mission where not only the man overboard is lost but so is the emergency boat and crew. I can’t see a responsible OOW sending crew to a certain death for no benefit to anyone.

I don't have any references either but during wartime, death or potential death was far more common than on board a passenger linet at sea during peaceful times. There have been stories where soldiers or sailors risked their lives to save a comrade in a dangerous situation even when the situation appeared hopeless. I doubt if any OOW could have lived with a decision not to try to rescue a child that had gone overboard.

 

[Bob Read]

I don't have any references either but during wartime, death or potential death was far more common than on board a passenger linet at sea during peaceful times. There have been stories where soldiers or sailors risked their lives to save a comrade in a dangerous situation even when the situation appeared hopeless. I doubt if any OOW could have lived with a decision not to try to rescue a child that had gone overboard.

Wartime calculations are completely different. How long could a child last in storms and high seas in the North Atlantic? Even finding anyone dead or alive would be a long shot. So how would an OOW live with condemning a boat crew to almost certain death? He may not have had to make that decision. There may have been standing orders in those conditions.

 

[Steven Christian]

I don't have any references either but during wartime, death or potential death was far more common than on board a passenger linet at sea during peaceful times. There have been stories where soldiers or sailors risked their lives to save a comrade in a dangerous situation even when the situation appeared hopeless. I doubt if any OOW could have lived with a decision not to try to rescue a child that had gone overboard.

It did bother them. Sometimes for the rest of their lives. It bothered my dad when they steamed past guys in the water in the north atlantic that got torpedoed. They were under orders not to stop. They weren't children but many of them like him were only 17-18 years old. He fought in 2 other wars...saw lots of horrible stuff especially in Korea. But those incidents in the north atlantic seemed to hit him harder than the others. Why I don't know. Maybe because he was so young at the time.

 

[Bob Read]

This is why I think when there were certain conditions like severe seas/weather that the Captain would decide that special orders would be in effect until further notice. Among these would be the prohibition of passengers on the promenades or weather decks, only the most essential tasks to be performed by crew on the weather decks with safety precautions such as lifelines, and the quarantining of the emergency boats. With these special orders in effect the OOW would not have to agonize about whether to launch emergency boats. The other consideration that occurred to me was how safe would it have been to bring the ship to a dead stop in these kind of sea/weather conditions? You wouldn’t want to jeopardize the entire ship.

 

[Steve Dunham]

The U.S. Livesaving Service had a slogan: "You have to go out. You don't have to come back." Still, there are dangerous conditions and there are hopeless conditions. Not all stormy weather that is bad enough to keep passengers inside is hopeless for attempting a rescue. Bob Read's comments above refer to "probably hopeless," "certain death," "long shot," and "almost certain death"; in some cases there might be a chance and sometimes not. It's not an easy decision. Compared to the wartime examples, in which a submarine had certainly been present and could torpedo the rescuing ship too, the threat likely remained and jeopardized an entire ship, including any who might be rescued. Rescuing someone who fell overboard from the Titanic might jeopardize the rescue crew but not the whole ship, and this would surely affect the decision whether to attempt a rescue.

 

[Bob Read]

The U.S. Livesaving Service had a slogan: "You have to go out. You don't have to come back." Still, there are dangerous conditions and there are hopeless conditions. Not all stormy weather that is bad enough to keep passengers inside is hopeless for attempting a rescue. Bob Read's comments above refer to "probably hopeless," "certain death," "long shot," and "almost certain death"; in some cases there might be a chance and sometimes not. It's not an easy decision. Compared to the wartime examples, in which a submarine had certainly been present and could torpedo the rescuing ship too, the threat likely remained and jeopardized an entire ship, including any who might be rescued. Rescuing someone who fell overboard from the Titanic might jeopardize the rescue crew but not the whole ship, and this would surely affect the decision whether to attempt a rescue.

Comparing men in the Lifesaving Service or the military to able bodied seamen in the Merchant Service is comparing apples and oranges. If these same men would mutiny over unseaworthy collapsible boats, I don’t think you are going to get them into small boats which would also have to be considered just as unseaworthy under the conditions I described. The reason I brought up the possibility of putting the ship in jeopardy has to do with a ship stopped in severe sea/weather conditions. I’ll leave it to some of the experts here to weigh in on whether such concerns for the safety of the ship are unfounded.