Passengers about whom nothing is known


Feb 14, 2011
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There seem to be detailed biographies of just about every Titanic passenger and crew member, ranging from details of life experiences to career to final resting place...

Are there any Titanic passengers whose life story still remain a mystery?

Im assuming there must be a few 3rd class passengers whose life stories are total mysteries.

Are all the 1st and second class passengers accounted for; in regards to life bios?
How about 3rd class and crew?

This may be a way to weed out the time travelers..
; )

regards


Tarn Stephanos
 

Scott Cosso

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Feb 12, 2004
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I believe in time there will be atleast something about just about everyone on the ship. Ofcourse it may be impossible to find out any info on some of the kids who perished but something should be found out about everyone else.
 
Dec 2, 2000
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Scott, I hope you're right. While I wouldn't completely dismiss that idea, I wouldn't get too cozy with it either. Even granting that nobody lives without leaving some traces and records...or recollections...behind, 92 years is plenty of time for both paper and living memory to get lost.

You might be amazed at the number of adults about whom very little is known beyond they fact of they're being there. This isn't really surprising. Most of these people were working or middle class and they had no intention of trying to become famous and cared very little about "making history." They just went on about their daily business with little fanfare, and those who survived were quite content to keep on doing it that way.
 
Jun 18, 2007
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"Are there any Titanic passengers whose life story still remain a mystery?"

What do you call a mystery, and what do you call accounted for? If it's a mere matter of dates and locations of birth and things of that barebones nature, I think every passenger and crew member has something down for them in that department.

But if you're talking about something more intangible, like evidence of personality types, then I've noticed that these sort of bios account for maybe half of what's on the boards.

Just perusing the 3rd class passenger list, I found three names that have the most basic details, but absolutely nothing else:

Sam'aan Youssif
Abi Saab Youssif
Kristina Sofia Laitinen

Not even a messageboard search turns up anything extra...how's that for grim?

There's more I'd like to say about this, but a thunderstorm's heading this way, so I have to jump off for the moment.
 
Apr 27, 2003
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Dear Kritina,
Ref your mail - here is some information that I have just submitted for Kristina Sofia Laitinen:

Lahtinen, Miss Kristina Sofia. Missing. 37-years-old. Helsinki, Finland. Born Riistavese, Kuppie, Finland. Housekeeper going to New York, USA.

(From: Mansion House Titanic Relief Fund Booklet, March 1913)
Number P.201. Laitenen, K. S. Mother received £60.
(From: Mansion House Titanic Relief Fund Booklet, March 1913)
Number P. 509. Lahtinen, R. Mother received £90. Lahtinen A. Mother., received £10.
Sofia was a maid. She was born in the village of Riistavesi, near Kuopio, in 1874. She moved to Helsinki in 1905, where she worked at the School For The Blind for three years. After this job she worked for some time at the Missionary House, and then she took care of merchant K. Koskinen's household as a hostess. She had no opportunity for education, except for confirmation school, but she was described by her friends as a person always willing to learn something new, dedicating her spare time to reading.
In 1911 one of Sofia Laitinen's friend left for the United States, and she lent this friend some money on condition that she would be sent a ticket to the New World. She received the promised ticket in November, but she was unable to make up her mind whether to leave or stay; so the voyage was postponed until April, when she sailed on the Titanic.
Sofia had some strange premonitions of impending disaster. One night he had a dream in which she fell into a well filled with ice-cold water . . . just like that of the Atlantic on that cold April night.
Miss Kristina Sofia Laitinen, 37, a single woman living in New York, was returning to that city from Helsinki, Finland. She boarded the Titanic in Southampton.
Miss Laitinen's body was never found and no compensation claim was ever made.
(From JP)
I will find something on the Youssif's later
Regards

Brian
 

Bob Godfrey

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Nov 22, 2002
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Kristina made friends with other Finns on board and shared a cabin with Anna Turja, Helga Hirvonen and her daughter Hildur, who was just 2 years old. After the collision they were told by stewards that nothing was wrong and they should remain in their cabin. They got better advice later from Helga's brother Eino Lindqvist, who arrived from the flooding bow and urged them instead to dress warmly and follow him up on deck. On the way, amid scenes of confusion, they saw Maria Panula with some of her children, weeping hysterically and desperately searching for the others.

At some point the group may have become separated, but Anna and Kristina certainly were together as far as A-Deck on the starboard side, at which point Anna decided it would be safer and warmer to stay there while Kristina favoured moving up to the boat deck. Anna was able to board boat 11 or 13 from A-deck, while The Hirvonens and Helga's brother made it into boat 15. Of this group of Finns, Kristina alone did not survive. Why this should be so is unexplained, except perhaps by Helga's description of their arrival on the boat deck just before the last boat was lowered, in a scene of surging crowds and confusion.
 

Inger Sheil

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Dec 3, 2000
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A good deal is known about a great many - if not most - of the passengers. However, there is no centralised published source...many people have pieces of the puzzle, and not all of the material is published (or will be published in the near future - some families have little time for the more commercial or 'circus' aspects of the Titanic community). As Brian and Bob's answers demonstrate, some researchers (Phil G and Brian Meister also spring to mind) have more pieces than others! I don't think there are that many names Phil G has to tick off his list...and Brian Meister has been going after even the most obscure of crewmen, about whom little is known beyond the material in the crew agreements.
 

Phillip Gowan

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Apr 10, 2001
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Solomon Bowenur---am doubting he really existed! He has stumped me more than any single individual on Titanic

PG
 
Mar 28, 2002
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Morning all,

I tried to be clever and try to find some info about Solomon Bowenur. I came across this, which I thought was odd. A very long list of names with selected Titanic passenegers inter-mingled amongst them, both survivors and victims, from the Ancestral Trails Historical Society Inc. All the names appear in the Ancestral News Quaterly publication, issues 1 to 4, 1998. Bowenur appears on page 7 of the publication, apparently.

Hope this helps, but I doubt it. A detective I ain't.

Cheers,

Boz
 
C

Christine Geyer

Guest
Brian, sorry for posting that here but did you receive my message one or two weeks ago?

Regards
Christine
 
Feb 6, 2004
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Well...I tried to be clever with Solomon as well, and actually found him (for all the information that can be obtained)

Here it is:

Solomon BONEMUR (yup another spelling)
age 34 (in keeping with the 1870 birthdate)
sailing from , you guessed it Southampton...
aboard the SS. New York on the 13th of August 1904. He is a US citizen...but unfortunately nothing else is revealed. The spelling throws me as I was thinking Bowenur could easily have been
Boenner and with correct pronunciation could lead a British immigrations person to write Bowenur.But Bonemur baffles me. Im thinking it might be of a french origin, instead of Jewish or German as I originally thought.
Cheers, Jim Bianco
below is the image of Solomon from the manifest:
 

Ben Holme

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Feb 11, 2001
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I'll second Phil's Bowenur-related frustrations! There are other names which spring to mind who have proved equally elusive over the years. Jacob Cook and Raihed Razi (sp?) are two good examples.

Details on several first class passengers have also proved very nebulous thus far: Benjamin Foreman, John Montgomery Smart etc. Surprising, given the world-wide fame of many of their on-board "equals".

Then there's the Orientals and the Bulgarians.
 
Apr 27, 2003
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Ben - I have just posted this for Mr. Smart - I hope it helps fill a gap?
Cheers

Brian
Smart, Mr. John Montgomery. Missing. (father) Wm. Smart, 3, Woodend Cottages, Kildale, via Grosmont, York.
Probate report: Smart, John Montgomery of F26/F27 Produce Exchange, New York, United States of America. Administration with Will limited, registered London 9th December 1916 to Samuel Peck Director attorney of Jeremiah Tivomey. Effects in England £134.17.9d.

Mr. Smart was the president of the American Cold Storage and Shipping Co., and lived at the Victoria Hotel in New York. When he travelled to England, he simply checked out of the hotel, and took all of his personal belongings with him. Some of those who knew him stated after his death that he went by 'Jim' leading them to believe his first name was James. As his name appears on the Titanic's passenger list as 'John M. Smart' it is possible his friends and acquaintances would not have realised he had been on board except that one of his fellow passengers was Frederic K. Seward, an attorney with the law firm which represented his company. Mr. Smart's friends understood he was originally from Massachusetts. It was believed he had a wife who died around 1902, and that he had two children, George and Annie, who after their mother's death were placed in private school in Europe. While in London prior to sailing. Mr. Smart told friends that his children were in that city with him. By 1912 they would have been aged 20 and 18. Preliminary estimates of his wealth ranged from $20,000 to over $100.000, yet all his personal records including the location of his children had gone down with him.
A world-wide search was begun for the two children who were never located. The valuation of Mr. Smart's estate dwindled to less than $10,000, while the number of creditors grew. A will dated 1897 leaving everything to two friends in Australia and no mention of his wife and children was thought to be fictitious. A porter at the Victoria Hotel recalled mailing a package to the children for Mr. Smart but couldn't recall the address.
The will was further questioned by a business associate of Smart's who claimed the signature was not his and that his name was James rather than John as was signed on the document. This was disputed by other associates.
The search for the children was dropped.. Perhaps they had money from their mother's estate, and because their father's was so small, and, with the publicity, chose to remain anonymous. The 1897 will was accepted by the court and settled.
 
Apr 27, 2003
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Ben - All I can find for Mr. Foreman is:
Foreman, Mr. Benjamin L. Missing. Cabin C111. Of Messrs Kugelman, Frankland & Foreman, Bankers. Agent, Einstein, St. Gallen. 306 West 99 Street, NY.
Aged 30 years.
Received Marconigram from the SS Prinz Friedrich Wilhelm sent to Titanic 14th April 1912 at 2.30pm, message read: Ben Foreman, Steamer Titanic. Hello Ben, pleasant trip. Will Morrison

Cheers Brian J. Ticehurst
 
Feb 6, 2004
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Some information on Benjamin Foreman:

Benjamin L. Foreman born Nov 1881 Albany, NY.
Parents:
Henry W. Foreman , a prosperous Hapts Merchant
(born Dec 1855 Chicago,IL died 1925 Manhatten, NY)
and
Rose Laventall (born 1859 Germany died 1939 NY)

siblings:
Benjamin Born Nov 1881 (he was the eldest)
Elliot S. Born Jul 1883
Robert N. Born Apr 1886
Edwin Born Jun 1888
Jules L. Born Jun 1892 died May 1968 Md. Lucy Fox
Frank L. Born Jun 1894

also..
Henry W. Foreman was the son of
Benjamin Foreman and Rose Heymann
who were German Immigrants married at Chicago,
Feb 22, 1852. (He was Bavarian and she from Hesse Darmstadt) Rose survived him, she died in
1903, at Albany, NY.


Jim Bianco
 

Ben Holme

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Feb 11, 2001
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Excellent info, Brian! Precisely what I was after. All I had previously on Smart was his age, profession, and his acquaintance with Frederic Seward.

You've filled in many crucial "blanks". Smart, unlike Foreman, is a passenger whose shipboard actions/movements on Titanic do not appear to have been recorded, even by Seward, who wrote several accounts of the sinking. Smart also appears to have been camera-shy, as I have not even seen a press photograph of him.

Jim -- Many thanks for the additional information of Foreman. Another elusive gent.

With my appreciative thanks again,

Ben
 
Feb 14, 2011
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ET seems to have the bios of just about every passenger and crew member from Titanic-
But were there any passengers or crew members who remain a mystery, beyond the name on the manifest?
For example, do we have the bios of every 1st class passenger?

[Moderator's Note: This message, originally posted as a separate thread, has been moved to this pre-existing thread addressing the same subject. MAB]
 

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