Passengers Forced to Sign Silence Papers

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Aaron_2016

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According to Mrs Louch the survivors on the Carpathia had to sign papers which said the conduct of the crew was correct. Was this a cunning way to make sure the survivors could not sue the company for negligence?


New York Times - April 19th 1912 (Her name is misspelt as Lurch)




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Aaron_2016

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Sure it is misspelt or is it only one of the wrong reports?
Mrs. Alice Louch was married to Charles Louch. So the complete name is wrong.
I believe the substance is more important. It was April 19th and reporters were likely questioning the survivors in the chaos of the crowd after landing in New York. There were plenty of reports from April 19th that said the Titanic broke in two. We know this is true, so the spelling of the passenger's names is I believe immaterial.

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Harland Duzen

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While not the best source, George Behe, ''Voices From The Carpathia'' not one of the letters written by passengers on the Carpathia mentioned such a thing occurring, Also, it would be difficult to keep 705 people quiet when they could ask to be kept confidential or write to friends and relatives.

We also should't forget that Ismay was hated by the Newspaper Tycoon (who's name currently I forget) created public hatred of him so this could be another example to create further public outcry against him and White Star.
 
Mar 18, 2008
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While not the best source, George Behe, ''Voices From The Carpathia'' not one of the letters written by passengers on the Carpathia mentioned such a thing occurring,
While is in not a good source?

Also, it would be difficult to keep 705 people quiet when they could ask to be kept confidential or write to friends and relatives.
Agree, only not with your number as it were 712 survivors.

We also should't forget that Ismay was hated by the Newspaper Tycoon (who's name currently I forget) created public hatred of him so this could be another example to create further public outcry against him and White Star.
That was Randolph Hearst.
 
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Aaron_2016

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Didn't the survivors collectively sign something aboard the Carpathia which gave thanks to the hospitality of the captain and crew of the Carpathia? Perhaps there was some small print at the bottom which included the crew of the Titanic and how they were entirely blameless. Reminds me of those tv commercials about being miss-sold payment protection insurance because few people read the small print on the paper they signed. Maybe Mrs. Louch read the small print?


The White Star Liner Teutonic almost struck an iceberg in 1913 and had to take emergency action to avoid it. The passengers signed a testimonial honouring the captain and crew. I wonder if this was by choice or by force to make the crew entirely blameless for the incident. I would be very surprised if this was not carried out aboard the Carpathia or the Lapland when the survivors returned to England.


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Harland Duzen

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While is in not a good source?
George Behe himself notes in the book, that many transcripts were from passengers giving interviews or stories to their home state newspapers so it possible the reporters dramatise their stories plus themselves not being Titanic experts meant they relied on word of mouth from other newspapers or shocked survivors.

Agree, only not with your number as it were 712 survivors.
I have to look that up...

That was Randolph Hearst.
That it's, I could't remember his name. either way, it is known he attempted to dirty Ismay's reputation so that certainly would enraged the public.
 
Mar 18, 2008
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George Behe himself notes in the book, that many transcripts were from passengers giving interviews or stories to their home state newspapers so it possible the reporters dramatise their stories plus themselves not being Titanic experts meant they relied on word of mouth from other newspapers or shocked survivors.
I see what you mean now. Thanks! I had at first the impression that you feel it is a bad book.



I have to look that up...
The exact numbers had been out for a few years now first by Herman Söldner and confirmed by independent research of Lester Mitcham. We have in all 2.208 names of which 712 survived and 1496 died.
 

Harland Duzen

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It's not a bad book in the slightest, the only con with it is the Lack of a bigger index where you have to memorise the Passengers names to remember particular sections or bits. I give it 10/10.

Cough, cough, anyway back to topic...
 

Jim Currie

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I think you are all missing a very simple point and that is the reasons behind obtaining signed Affidavits or Testimonials

A single affidavit is usually obtained from an individual to clear another or others of accusations against them by that individual or to help prove a disputed act etc.
Group affidavits have the same purpose but are almost impossible to obtain since it is seldom that all members of a group share exactly the same opinion.
In the case of the former, it may be retained privately and only used if the occasion arises.
As for the latter; it would be pointless and probably impossible to keep such a mass affidavit private.
Bottom line: An signed Affidavit cannot be used as proof of anything unless the signature or signatures are witnessed by a properly qualified witness. No one could be forced to sign one.

As for what was signed on Carpathia...it was more than likely, like the paper signed on the Teutonic... a Testimonial Letter of Appreciation. Then as now, an individual could not be forced to sign for anything that he or she did not believe to be true.

I am curious about that Teutonic report. How was it possible for passengers to appreciate what was going on on the bridge of the ship in thick fog?
 

Harland Duzen

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''Most of the passengers were below, singing and reading, when the officer
posted at the forecastle head made a frantic rush across deck to report
to Capt. James that an enormous iceberg had been sighted right ahead,
almost on top of the vessel.

The Captain promptly put the helm ''hard a-port'' and the engines ''Full Speed
Astern
''.

Then slowly the liner swung to starboard just in the nick of time, and
the iceberg, towering as high as the funnels, passed silently along the
port aide within a few yards of the stern.'
'

The Times ''October 1913'' (Special Thanks to Mark Baber)

Interesting how this is nearly the same orders (originally believed till recently) Titanic tried to avoid the iceberg. Aside from size, what saved the Teutonic and not the Titanic?
 
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Aaron_2016

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In 1907 the Kronprinz Wilhelm struck an iceberg. They managed to break the ice apart as it was soft. Wonder if the berg that struck the Titanic was also soft enough to break and if the passengers and crew of the Kronprinz Wilhelm had signed a testimonial.




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Note: Just a few weeks after the incident Captain Richter was no longer the captain of this ship. Wonder if the shipping line believed he was negligent and replaced him?

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Jim Currie

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The case of the Teutonic was completely different. If she was in fog as reported, then she would be creeping through it at Dead Slow Ahead and giving a prolonged blast on her steam whistle every 2 minutes. In fact, you can sometimes hear the echo of a fog signal coming off a big iceberg. i#ve heard that in the Belle Isle Straight.
 
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Aaron_2016

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The Normannia struck an iceberg on her maiden voyage in 1890. Is it true that her speed actually saved the ship from serious damage because the forward momentum allowed her to turn quicker? Would the passengers be thankful or angry about the incident?




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Harland Duzen

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Out of interest, where do you get your infinite source of old Newspapers? Do you own them, have access to an archive website or just lucky?