Phantom Survivors


Y

Yonnie Elkin

Guest
Here's a mystery:

A woman by the name of Mollie Kravitz told my wife some years ago that she survived the sinking, along with her sister Gertrude, a younger brother, an infant and their mother (from Odessa, Russia) -- yet they are not listed on any passenger manifests or survivor lists I've come across. According to her account, they boarded the vessel in Southampton, the family having received general steerage tickets from Mollie's father in Chicago.

Is it possible for someone to have boarded the Titanic with tickets and not be accounted for on any passenger list? Would that been standard practice for those travelling in general steerage?And wouldn't the Carpathia's record of survivors include legal documentation of passengers required to register with immigration officials.

And, finally, by all historical records, have all passengers been accounted for?

Years later, in the 1980's, Mollie Kravitz was honored by the Oceanographic Society of Southern California for being a Titanic survivor. Was she pulling a fast one on everyone, including my wife?

Thanks in advance for helping to solve this mystery.

Yonnie
 

Dave Gittins

Member
Apr 11, 2001
5,051
332
353
Yonnie, unless there is some complicated story involving name changes, which some immigrants made after arriving in the US, the people would be listed on this site. Passengers were accounted for, both by White Star and by US immigation authorities. Loose ends have been tided up by later researchers, including some of the contributors to this forum. There's not much room for error.
 
Mar 3, 1998
2,745
253
0
For those of you who are more in tune with the people aboard the ship than me, can anyone provide more illumination on the true identity of Quartermaster Moody? Was he really, in fact, Hitchens? Or possibly an amalgam created by the press?

Parks
 

Inger Sheil

Member
Dec 3, 2000
5,342
64
308
Parks -

As far as I can tell, he's an amalgam created by the press who seems to have taken on a life of his own (he even gave interviews in which he saw all sorts of exciting things...I'd have to check, but I believe he was even quoted as having seen an officer suicide). Very distorted, but essentially Hichens.

~ Inger
 
Mar 3, 1998
2,745
253
0
I believe he was even quoted as having seen an officer suicide

Ing,

That officer would be "Murdock." Go to Bill Wormstedt's page and read the excerpt from "QM Moody" I recently provided him.

Parks
 
Dec 6, 2000
1,384
18
221
I agree with Inger - 'Moody' seems to be a distorted Hichens.

If someone happens to have the original source for QM 'Moody', I'd sure be interested in posting the data on my page. Or any info on him that I do not already have.
 

George Behe

Member
Dec 11, 1999
1,280
12
0
Bill wrote:

>If someone happens to have the original source >for QM 'Moody', I'd sure be interested in
>posting the data on my page.

Hi, Bill!

New York American, April 19, 1912.

All my best,

George
 
Apr 25, 2001
294
0
171
Hello everybody! Re the alleged quartermaster Moody; he may have been Hichens, but on the other hand....it might well have been a person who made a story up, perhaps in order to get money from the 'newshungry' reporters (just a suggestion). I wouldn't take the alleged Mr 'Moody' too seriously.

Best regards,

Peter
 
Mar 3, 1998
2,745
253
0
George,

Just for the sake of idle curiosity, does the New York American interview give any clues as to 'QM Moody's' origins? I assume he wasn't a real person (as far as we're concerned, anyway), but it would be slightly interesting to see how much fiction comprised that article.

Gosh, if it could be proven that the New York newspapers of that time engaged in sensationalism, that would truly be something!! ;-)

Parks
 

George Behe

Member
Dec 11, 1999
1,280
12
0
Hi, Parks!

The man whom the reporter called "Moody" is pretty definitely Hichens, and the interview contains accurate tidbits as well as some outlandish ones. I blame this on the "American" reporter, though, since the accurate interview that Hichens (by name) gave to another newspaper a few days later could serve as a model for modern-day interviewers (and even supports your contention that the ship's engines stopped at the time of the collision.)

Even though it's recently become fashionable for researchers to look down on Hichens, I believe there are things we can still learn from the man. (I don't intend to swim against the tide here on the ET board, though.) ;-)

All my best,

George
 
Sep 20, 2000
1,072
4
0
Dear Mr. Behe:

My client respectfully requests me to extend his heartfelt appreciation for your kind words of support. Being as he has indeed been much maligned of late, he was most ecstatic to receive my report to him of your beneficent acknowledgement.

Very truly yours,
JM Feeney, esq.
wink.gif
 
Mar 3, 1998
2,745
253
0
George,

Thank you for that information. I'm not trying to start another pogrom against Hitchens. Even if "QM Moody" is Hitchens, the portrayal is so inaccurate as to be unrecognisable.

Parks
 
Y

Yonnie Elkin

Guest
I ask a question about a Mollie Kravitz, looking to end a family mystery, and except for Dave Gittins, it turns into a debate about Moody vs. Hichens. I thought this was a forum to address the queries posted, not just another hat-hanging chat room.
 
Mar 3, 1998
2,745
253
0
Yonnie,

So sorry you didn't find the answer to your query. However, the title of thread was "Phantom Survivors," and as far as I can tell, all the discussion here remained relevent to that topic. If you wanted the thread to be only about Mollie Kravitz, then maybe you should have set the thread up that way.

Parks
 
Sep 20, 2000
1,072
4
0
Hi, Yonnie:

I sort of agree, that did seem to come in out of the blue, but for all intents and purposes what Dave answered is the only answer anyone can offer. The passenger and crew research here on ET is probably the most extensive in the world regarding coverage of all persons involved, so if the name doesn't show up on the Main Page Search, the chances are extremely good that they simply weren't aboard.

Aside from that, usually nobody here will merely guess what they don't know, so on a VERY tough question you may get nothing but silence. (Like, if you can tell me whatever became of Ernest Gill after the Inquiries, I'll be happy to search the Kravitz story till I'm old and grey.)
happy.gif


I think the others just felt this was definitely a dead issue, since Dave had basically already said it all.

Regards,
John Feeney
 
Sep 20, 2000
1,072
4
0
Hi, Parks:

Ah, OK. I thought that might be what brought up "QM Moody"!
(Another "Phantom Survivor".)
happy.gif


(And congrats on those FAQ additions -- fine work, there!)

Best regards,
John Feeney
 
Sep 20, 2000
1,072
4
0
Hi, Parks:

Is there any way I could get a copy of the "QM Moody" account you sent to Bill. (It sounds like he's saying it's not posted yet, though I might be mistaken, and I'd be most interested to have a look.) What was the original source of your submission -- book reprint, newspaper?

Thanks!
happy.gif

John Feeney
 
Mar 3, 1998
2,745
253
0
John,

Instead of having me re-type it here, Bill has it posted now, along with the reference, as a link off his 'Shots In The Dark' page. If you can't find it, let me know and I'll retype it for you.

Parks
 
Sep 20, 2000
1,072
4
0
Thanks, Parks! Got it. And I see what you mean -- whatever elements of truth are mixed in with the fabrications, one needs a separate "yardstick" just to discern one from the other. Frankly, I'm sure there are kernels of truth in both Mowbray's and Logan Marshall's books, but both incorporated -- directly or indirectly -- such a high degree of artistic license that it's difficult to impossible to separate the wheat from the chaff.

George: Any chance the other Hichens (per se) article is accessible online somewhere, or perhaps in a reputable "as told in the Press" book? (Like "Extra! Titanic"? I believe that's the name.)

Cheers!
John
 

George Behe

Member
Dec 11, 1999
1,280
12
0
John wrote:

>George: Any chance the other Hichens (per se) >article is accessible online somewhere, or
>perhaps in a reputable "as told in the Press" >book? (Like "Extra! Titanic"? I believe that's >the name.)

Hi, John!

If you're referring to the actual Hichens (by name) interview, I'm afraid I don't know if it's been reproduced in an easily accessible source.

All my best,

George
 

Similar threads

Similar threads