Phantom Survivors

[Yonnie Elkin]

Parks and John --

I can certainly see your point about titling the thread -- and how it appears that it's an open discussion on all mythological passengers -- and it's a point well taken. I just thought the question as to the identity of Mollie Kravitz and her family would speak for itself -- and to initially see a myriad of responses that might serve as solutions turn into a discussion about an unrelated matter was a disappointment.
I certainly wasn't expecting miracles -- just signposts to point me in any direction.

I do appreciate both your constructive comments.

Regards,

Yonnie

 

[Parks Stephenson]

Yonnie,

If I had any information that I thought could have been of help to you, I would have immediately forwarded it. Unfortunately, I couldn't add to Dave's recommendations. However, that doesn't mean that you've reached the end of the line.

Parks

 

[Yonnie Elkin]

Well, let me ask this: Is it possible to check immigration or Ellis Island records via the Internet? What resources are available on-line, if any, that could possibly pinpoint the Kravitz family's arrival into the United States. If I could find a date of entry that conflicts with the arrival of the Carpathia in New York harbor -- that, I believe, would be game, set, match.

Any suggestions?


Yonnie

 

[Bill Wormstedt]

To John and anyone interested in my 'Shots in the Dark' page:

I was able to get the info Parks sent me on QM Moody up fairly quickly. I do have some other information to put up there, but it's going to require some work to get it ready. In light of work on my other projects, I'm not spending much time on 'Shots' at the moment - although I do intend to get back to it at some point.

None of the back-log is earth-shaking information, though - just more of the same. Too many people who said they saw the shooting, but couldn't have.

 

[Iain Stuart Yardley]

British Pathe News has an Australian (?) survivor (???) called Logan breeding Clydesdales in 1961. This surely can't be right, can it?

Titanic Survivor Breeds Clydesdales At Shepparton

British Pathe, the world's leading multimedia resource with a history stretching back over a century. The finest and most comprehensive archive of fabulous footage and stunning stills.

www.britishpathe.com

Cheers,

Boz

 

[Bob Godfrey]

Yonnie, regarding the elusive Mollie Kravitz, I suggest you concentrate your search on the Oceanographic Society of Southern California. Does it exist? (not in my search engines). If so, do they have any record of honouring this person? If so, what evidence did she produce to justify this honour? If you draw a blank on any of these questions, there's not much left of her claim.

 

[Dave Gittins]

Iain, as there was nobody called Logan on board, and certainly no Australian of that name, I fear we have another fairytale. We Aussies are pretty good at tall tales. I've got three phoney Titanic crew in South Australia alone. Why shouldn't the Victorians have one?

 

[Matt Endacott]

Hey,
Im curious; is there any possibility at all that there could be atleast one more unknown Titanic survivor out there?
I re-call some years ago the Newcastle Herald in Australia printed a story of the death of a Titanic survivor around 1998 from Japan, however in 1998 there was no Japanese survivor alive, correct me if im wrong.
Could there have been mistakes in the passenger lists or immigration records? I know from family history of that era spelling mistakes were nothing out of the ordinary! Or prehaps female infants and children could have married several times; becoming lost to historians? Has every passenger, especially children been traced and researched?

Best Regards,
Matt

 

[Bob Godfrey]

Matt, would that be the same Newcastle Herald that you have mentioned in other postings and which printed a story about the ghost of a non-existent passenger and an 'authentic' photo of the sinking Titanic? Sounds like a reliable source of information!

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>Has every passenger, especially children been traced and researched?<<

No, although any number of researchers are attempting to do just that. Brian Miester and Phil Gowan in particular have been working to track down some very obscure personalites who effectively dropped out of sight after the disaster and were probably happy to avoid media attention.

The only Japanese national who was aboard the ship was Mr Masabumi Hosono and if This article is any indication, he probably wished he hadn't survived. As it was, he died on March 14, 1939.

As to the prospect of unknown survivors, I would put very long odds against it. The people picked up by the Carpathia were all accounted for once the dust settled, and no other ship picked up any survivors. I seem to recall that the Newcastle Harald has published several stories involving bogus survivors, but they're hardly the only ones. Unfortunately, the people writing these stories seldom bother to do the sort of in-depth homework they need to.

 

[Kyrila Scully]

Or do the math.... (Let's see, if he was 30 in 1912....)

Kyrila

 

[Kyrila Scully]

Yonnie, Ellis Island has recently opened a website to trace ancestors, etc. Also some libraries which cater to genealogy research carry books that list the manifests of all the ships. I work for the Historical Research Center and our library has such books, which we use for purposes of onomastic research. We also use the Ellis Island site, but there is a charge. It's highly likely that your mother's friend was either told the wrong information or actually was on a ship that sank and got the name mixed up, or did some creative storytelling. There are numerous records of people claiming to have been on the Titanic who weren't. Can you provide any details of her story? I have a curiosity about these people, and have a clipping from a very old Cedar Rapids newspaper of one such gentleman who claimed to be on the ship, but his story didn't add up. I'd love to hear what your mother's friend told about her experience.

Kyrila

 

[Donald J A Smith]

I'm fascinated to know the identity of "Mrs Nolan, I believe" (quoting Richard May in a letter to Father Browne) who, according to Lily Odell, "came ashore with us at Queenstown". Browne was also keen to learn more of her, and of "her gentleman friend" who did not embark and whose name none of the Odell party knew or were able to recall. Considering every spelling and phonetic variation, I still haven't been able to identify her among any lists. Yet, surely "Mrs Nolan" and "her gentleman friend" are the 'couple' in Father Browne's photograph.

 

[Lester Mitcham]

Hello Donald,

I understand that passenger E. Nichols; although listed as Mr, was in fact a Mrs Nichols and that she travelled as far as Queenstown in the company of 1st Class passsenger RW Smith.

 

[Lester Mitcham]

As a follow up I have looked at Craig Stringer's: Titanic People.
Smith was 57 and Mrs Nichols a few weeks short of her 49th birthday. - That would seem to fit with the couple photographed by Father Browne.

 

[Donald J A Smith]

Lester: Many thanks for that. Fits the classic 'It must be: therefore it is.'! Richard May did seem uncertain of 'Nolan'; and it is the initial letter of a name - otherwise forgotten - that we are often able to call up again when we run through the alphabet. I accept these as their names. Quite possibly we both now do. Will others? Will 'Mr E Nichols' become 'Mrs E Nichols' on ET? Or, will faces never be added to the otherwise lifeless names?

 

[Matt Endacott]

Hey,
I don't really think the Newcastle Herald created these stories, actually i was told most of what they print is from the Sydney Morning Herald! But anyway, i think they're a bit more reliable than the World News... i think thats it (the one that ran the story of the baby in the Titanic life ring?) anyway, does anyone know the passengers that haven't been traced?
Thanks.

 

[Dan Cherry]

Probably the ones on ET who don't have much to their bio....