Pier in New York

Aelvir

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Yes, it will be turned, or has been turned, into a floating park. I cannot find any information as to who used it, except a 1920's Port of New York Annual that states Pier 55- Thames River Line, though obviously Thames river is across the pond. I found this little tid-bit though:

View attachment 2416
I find the image odd, it seems to say that Pier 59 was used by Red Star Line, but I’m pretty sure 59 was used by White Star Line and was Olympic’s usual pier. Unless I’m reading the image wrong.
 

Mark Baber

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Piers 58 through 62 were allocated to IMM, which owned ATL, White Star, Red Star and American. 59 was the pier lengthened to accommodate the Olympics and was also used by White Star's large ships, including Majestic II and Homeric.
 

B-rad

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I find the image odd, it seems to say that Pier 59 was used by Red Star Line, but I’m pretty sure 59 was used by White Star Line and was Olympic’s usual pier. Unless I’m reading the image wrong.
Here some more 'odd' bits for you...
The NY Times in 1909 and 1910 (I've lost the exact dates- old research) would have WS's dock as 48 & 49. The November 24, 1910 and Jan. 3rd, 1911 issues would have it as 61. The 'Exporter's Encyclopedia 7th Edition" 1911 would have WS via Liverpool 60-61 N.R, West 19th to 21st St.

:)
 
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And some more "odd bits" to add to the thread.

Many years ago , I attended the 1965 New York World's Fair.
After I had finished visiting the fair I also visited RMS Queen Mary and SS France which were in Port at the time.
This was quite a contrast between the oldest and newest in transatlantic liners.
Also I believe the admission fees for the Queen Mary visit went to a Seaman's Relief Fund or something of that nature.
Unfortunately I failed to make a note of the pier numbers and I don't remember them .
I stayed at the old Skyline Motor Inn.
My room had a window with an excellent view with all the liners lined up below , especially .when lighted up at night.
There was also a new Italian liner in Port, but it did not offer visiting tours.

Just another bit of "odd bits" :
I had thought of making a trip to England that year.
I had a reservation for Queen Mary but cancelled it in favor of the Fair.
After having had a chance to inspect Second Class Cabin C-119 during my Queen Mary visit I was really glad I had cancelled ! The reservation had had been confirmed for that Cabin !
Years later, as a family , we stayed at Hotel Queen Mary in Cabin M-115, a former First Class Cabin.
And had dinner in Sir Winston's , the former Verandah Grille.
Quite a pleasant contrast from C-119 !

Here's another "odd bit" to add to the collection :
That was the year I went from Dallas, Texas to Yellowstone National Park, Wyoming via New York, New York on my annual vacation trip . I logged 6,023 miles. The last trip as a young and single bachelor ! LOL
 
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Mark Baber

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The NY Times in 1909 and 1910 (I've lost the exact dates- old research) would have WS's dock as 48 & 49.
That's right. 48 and 49 were White Star's piers until the Chelsea Piers opened in 1910.

21 December 1903: New York City Commissioner of Docks and Ferries McDougall Hawkes and IMM representative Clement A. Griscom, Jr., general manager of the American and Red Star lines, announce that IMM will occupy "a great part" of a new complex of piers in the city's Chelsea section, moving from their current facilities at Piers 14 and 15 (American Line), 39 and 40 (Atlantic Transport), 48 and 49 (White Star) and 50 (Leyland). The agreement is reached notwithstanding the recent refusal by Secretary of War Root to approve an extension of the pierhead line to accommodate larger ships, Commissioner Hawkes opining that "the Government will have to recede from its position" that room for longer ships should be obtained by digging farther into Manhattan Island rather than building farther out into the Hudson River. (Source: The New York Times, 22 December 1903.)

21 February 1910: New York's Chelsea Piers formally open when Oceanic II moves from Pier 48 to Pier 61. All of the IMM lines, as well as Cunard (which has already begun using Pier 54) and the French Line, will operate out of the new facilities. At the same time, John Pennell, White Star's pier superintendent for the last thirty-nine years, retires and is succeeded by Edward S. Wright, pier superintendent of the American Line. (Sources: The New York Times, 17, 18 and 20 February 1910; New-York Tribune, 18 February 1910; The Sun (New York), 18 February 1910.)

The 'Exporter's Encyclopedia 7th Edition" 1911 would have WS via Liverpool 60-61 N.R, West 19th to 21st St.
That's also right. Piers 60 and 61 were among the IMM piers in Chelsea that White Star and IMM's other lines used.. For example, IMM's display ad in The New York Times for 15 April 1912, a date I picked at random, shows ATL using 58, White Star 59 and 60, Red Star 61 and American 62.
 
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Harland Duzen

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No mistake, Mark; Titanic's pier was indeed 59, part of the IMM complex of piers that ran from 58 to 62, and Pier 54 is where Carpathia docked and discharged Titanic's survivors after leaving the lifeboats at 59.

IMM used the Chelsea Piers form the time they opened in 1910. In general, Atlantic Transport used 58; White Star 59 and 60; Red Star 61; and American 62. White Star continued to use the IMM piers even after IMM sold the line in 1926; the last White Star departure from Pier 59 was Olympic, on 30 June 1934. After that date, the surviving White Star liners, now part of Cunard White Star, docked at Cunard's facilities a little to the south. That's why the steel arch which still stands at Pier 54 says "Cunard White Star".

Pier 59 is now a driving range, with a restaurant/microbrewery at the end of it, where some of us have passed a fine summer evening or two watching harbor traffic while enjoying pints of the local brew. Pier 54 still exists, although only the steel arch remains; all of the other structures that were once there are no more.

Sources: The New York Times, various dates in 1910, 1911, 1912 and 1934, and personal observations.

Out of interest, was there ever a Pier 55 that existed? and if not, why is there a numbered gap between Pier 54 and Pier 56?
 

B-rad

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Yes, it will be turned, or has been turned, into a floating park. I cannot find any information as to who used it, except a 1920's Port of New York Annual that states Pier 55- Thames River Line, though obviously Thames river is across the pond. I found this little tid-bit though:

piers.jpg
 
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I remember a rule of thumb was the Pier Number Minus 40 was the number of the cross street nearest the pier.
For example, Pier 61 was at West 21st Street.
 

Harland Duzen

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Yes, it will be turned, or has been turned, into a floating park. I cannot find any information as to who used it, except a 1920's Port of New York Annual that states Pier 55- Thames River Line, though obviously Thames river is across the pond. I found this little tid-bit though:

View attachment 2416
So Pier 55 never existed in 1912?

Thank You for the list. this will be useful in research.
 

A. Gabriel

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I am extremely and vehemently opposed to the floating park concept (with a website here) intended to be built in the space between the old Piers 54 and 56. Pier 54 is a relic of maritime history and should have been left unmolested as such -- it was the pier from which Lusitania sailed in the days leading up to her own untimely end as well. But then I am only one person, and a foreigner at that, so my opinion holds less weight than a length of Marconi aerial cable.

Small consolation at least that the plans for Pier 55 (the name of said floating park concept) include keeping the Cunard-White Star pier arch intact, according to the site's gallery. That arch has seen the ages come and go, and there it should stay for posterity's sake. What other Titanic-related sites still remain in the city that never sleeps, never stands still?
 
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Tim Aldrich

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I'll be going there some time in October and had been doing a bit of research on other things that may be in the same area. I recall reading about a little monument in the area but don't recall if it was a general "mariner's" monument or something Titanic related. If I can dig up the website again I'll post a link here.

I'm very much looking forward to seeing that last Chelsea Pier arch. White Star's pier is, IIRC, a sporting complex of sorts. I wonder if there's any of the original pier underneath all of the other stuff. It can be seen with google maps and the street views are pretty good. On a side note, the Bowery Boys podcast has an excellent episode about the Chelsea piers.
 

A. Gabriel

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The pier that Olympic frequented (and that Titanic was supposed to be berthed at) was Pier 59, which is now a golf driving range. The wooden dock posts that supported the original concrete piers are I think still original, still intact -- due to them serving as a haven for the striped bass of the Hudson river and therefore necessarily conserved.
 
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Aelvir

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I am extremely and vehemently opposed to the floating park concept (with a website here) intended to be built in the space between the old Piers 54 and 56. Pier 54 is a relic of maritime history and should have been left unmolested as such -- it was the pier from which Lusitania sailed in the days leading up to her own untimely end as well. But then I am only one person, and a foreigner at that, so my opinion holds less weight than a length of Marconi aerial cable.

Small consolation at least that the plans for Pier 55 (the name of said floating park concept) include keeping the Cunard-White Star pier arch intact, according to the site's gallery. That arch has seen the ages come and go, and there it should stay for posterity's sake. What other Titanic-related sites still remain in the city that never sleeps, never stands still?
I completely agree. While they have stated that the Archway will remain untouched and act as a entranceway into the floating park, I feel the same with you as that sullies the legacy it had. Outside of setimental reasons, I find the floating park idea to be meaningless and overall redundant. There is no need for a park there or anywhere near Chelsea Piers. First there's Chelsea Park which is about a half mile away, then there's the Chelsea Waterside Park, that is right beside Pier 62 (which is now part of the Hudson River Park), and there's the 14th Street Park which is only 0.10 miles away from Pier 54! Also, further south is Pier 45, Pier 46, and Pier 51, all three are also parks. To put it simply: Why make a floating park there? When there's numerous park already numerous parks within a 1 mile radius of Chelsea Piers!
Honestly a better idea would to maybe build a replica of the original Pier either on or beside the Pier, and use that as a memorial of sorts.
While I understand people want to make what's left of Pier 54 into something less of an unkempt ruins, replacing it with a floating park when at least 7 park are in its vicinity is downright insulting. I personally think it should either be cleaned up or rebuilt, and maybe turned into a type of memorial/museum of sorts (perhaps housing artefacts and such related to not just ships associated with 54 like Lusitania and Carpathia, but Chelsea Piers as a whole).
 

Doug Criner

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A number of years ago, I visited Queenstown (now Cobh) in Ireland. The original pier where Titanic passengers boarded and disembarked their tender was somewhat dilapidated but still there - hopefully it still is. Priceless.
 

Mike Spooner

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No mistake, Mark; Titanic's pier was indeed 59, part of the IMM complex of piers that ran from 58 to 62, and Pier 54 is where Carpathia docked and discharged Titanic's survivors after leaving the lifeboats at 59.

View attachment 39602

IMM used the Chelsea Piers form the time they opened in 1910. In general, Atlantic Transport used 58; White Star 59 and 60; Red Star 61; and American 62. White Star continued to use the IMM piers even after IMM sold the line in 1926; the last White Star departure from Pier 59 was Olympic, on 30 June 1934. After that date, the surviving White Star liners, now part of Cunard White Star, docked at Cunard's facilities a little to the south. That's why the steel arch which still stands at Pier 54 says "Cunard White Star".

Pier 59 is now a driving range, with a restaurant/microbrewery at the end of it, where some of us have passed a fine summer evening or two watching harbor traffic while enjoying pints of the local brew. Pier 54 still exists, although only the steel arch remains; all of the other structures that were once there are no more.

Sources: The New York Times, various dates in 1910, 1911, 1912 and 1934, and personal observations.
Just a matter of interested, what pier did the Queen Mary, Queen Elizabeth, Normandy and the USA liner use?
Mike.
 
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I once did the Circle Tour of Manhattan--much recommended by the way! and I asked in passing to the tour guide "at what pier was Titanic scheduled to dock?" Needless to say, he didn't know. When in New York, I often remember this ultra trivia--but I'm STILL looking for an answer!!! Does ANYONE out there in Titanic land know which pier Titanic was scheduled to dock in? THANKS!! Barry Blackburn
 
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Unless I'm mistaken, from memory it was Pier 59. Carpathia used Cunard's Pier 54 when she got in.

Best regards,

Mark.
 

Mark Baber

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No mistake, Mark; Titanic's pier was indeed 59, part of the IMM complex of piers that ran from 58 to 62, and Pier 54 is where Carpathia docked and discharged Titanic's survivors after leaving the lifeboats at 59.

PC-WS04.jpg


IMM used the Chelsea Piers form the time they opened in 1910. In general, Atlantic Transport used 58; White Star 59 and 60; Red Star 61; and American 62. White Star continued to use the IMM piers even after IMM sold the line in 1926; the last White Star departure from Pier 59 was Olympic, on 30 June 1934. After that date, the surviving White Star liners, now part of Cunard White Star, docked at Cunard's facilities a little to the south. That's why the steel arch which still stands at Pier 54 says "Cunard White Star".

Pier 59 is now a driving range, with a restaurant/microbrewery at the end of it, where some of us have passed a fine summer evening or two watching harbor traffic while enjoying pints of the local brew. Pier 54 still exists, although only the steel arch remains; all of the other structures that were once there are no more.

Sources: The New York Times, various dates in 1910, 1911, 1912 and 1934, and personal observations.
 
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To expand on Mark's post further here is an image of the Chelsea Piers showing the Cunard Section of the Pier with the Lusitania berthed. This image dates from 1912-1913.

The Chelsea piers originally extended along the Hudson river from West 12th street to the 23rd Street Ferry. The Chelsea piers were originally erected by the City of New York during the period of 1902-1907, at a cost of $15,000,000. The first ship to land at the newly completed Cunard piers was the Cunard Liner Lusitania on her maiden voyage in 1907. The piers went thru further construction and lengthening to better accomiadate the new 'Olympic class Liners, and White Stars officially openned for use in 1910.

These piers were used by the following lines: Cunard, French Line, Atlantic Transport, Red Star, White Star, and the American line.

Over 2,000,000 passengers arrived and sailed from these piers in 1914.

Chelsea Piers
Publisher: The American Art Publishing Company, NYC, New York, 1913
Steven B. Anderson Collection, 2003
61031.jpg