Places on board the ship


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Ben Lemmon

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OK, this is peculiar. I was in a lecture in history the other day, when my history professor found it ironic that James Cameron had Jack constantly on the bow because many ships around that time had the 3rd class passengers stowed below decks. However, when I looked at the plans I had, it looks as though the Third class promenade area was the bow. So who is wrong in this aspect?
 

Dave Gittins

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Third class had access to the well decks both fore and aft. What no passengers could do was go right to the bow, as shown in the movie.

By the way, Titanic wasn't called the Ship of Dreams until Don Lynch used the expression as a chapter title in his book in 1992.
 

Ben Lemmon

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quote:

Titanic wasn't called the Ship of Dreams until Don Lynch used the expression as a chapter title in his book in 1992.
Seems ol' James Cameron didn't do as much research as he said he did, eh?

That's what I thought. My history professor was not talking about those specific scenes. He was talking in general. Maybe he should take a crash course in Titanic. This is one aspect in history that I believe I know more about than he does. However, I could be wrong. Is it true or not that Third class was locked behind gates? I've seen a powerpoint that tries to debunk this theory, but I haven't seen any more on it. What is the generally accepted theory among Titanic buffs nowadays?​
 
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>>Is it true or not that Third class was locked behind gates? I've seen a powerpoint that tries to debunk this theory, but I haven't seen any more on it. <<

it did more then debunk the locked gates story, it nuked it. I know the lady who researched it and her sources. The locked gates you hear about in the inquiries are the waist high gates at the top of the stairs leading up to B Deck from the Well Deck. One of the third class passengers easily vaulted right over it.

The problem with the locked gates is that the Bostwick type gates portrayed in the film were known to exist only in three places. One was in a ladder up in the forward 3rd Class acommodation and since this was flooded early on, it's of no relevance. Nor is the one which, oddly enough, was in the vegetable prep area. The third one, and this has been photographed on the wreck, barricaded the shell doors on the hull in the 1st class area so again, is of no relevance.

While this doesn't prove 100% that there weren't others, they aren't documented and they were no barrier to anybody trying to get outside. All anyone had to do was go up.
 

Dave Gittins

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In Titanic: The Ship Magnificent, it's shown that some of the bars mis-presented on TV as barriers to the third class passengers were actually safety devices to stop people or crew falling into the holds.

In my view, TV and movies are about the worst possible sources of information.
 

Steven Hall

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Dave, there is a lot of good resource material in the books. Your right, don't take everything you see on TV as 100% gospel. I believe now the books are out, the guys will likely chime in with quite a few things that might interest people - and even change certain opinions about the ship itself. Once you have studied the ship in great structural detail, one starts to form an opinion also on how the ship broke apart. I've been working on a theory the ship started to fail from within. But that's another story somewhat best keep for another publication.
 
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>>I've been working on a theory the ship started to fail from within.<<

Would it surprise you to find out that this very thought has occured to others Steve? There were certainly warning signs noted by some of the survivors which hint at exactly that even if they didn't recognize it for what it was. The noises heard by the Chief Baker for example.
 

Steven Hall

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My thoughts and research on this go back some 8 years now. I started seeing the collation of internal failure during the initial writing of Bruce and I’s first book and later researching Titanic’s structural design during the TTSM book (‘s). I remember spending several hours each night for a week looking at stress factors on internal beams and girders, stretching and compression points, open spaces through relative angles. If the ship starts to flex, warp internally, an outer hull (plate) derangement is mostly likely a consequence. If I'd had access to raw dive footage, I could've investigated this further. But that didn't / isn’t going to happen, is it! This is the principle reason I shelved the research into it 4 years ago.
Mike it won’t surprise me if others have likewise thought the same thing.
It wouldn’t matter what I presented or even said, I’ll never get the opportunity to pursue it through an investigative expedition to the wreck. It’s a rather exclusive club. And I like a few others I could mention, haven't been offered a membership application. Bruce’s plans and the TTSM books will be on board, to bad the chaps that drew and wrote the books and plans won’t.
Now it’s the return of the infamous rivets.
 

Steven Hall

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"The noises heard by the Chief Baker for example." Yes Mike, there are many other examples. If you listen to Boxhall's narration on the BBC website, there is a few little insights into this theory.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/titanic/5049_titanic.shtml
Either way, others can pursue their theories into this matter. I left it behind 4 years ago and have no intention of resurrecting the idea without footage to research.
 
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>>But that didn't / isn’t going to happen, is it!<<

Unfortunately, probably not. I'm not sure I'd be so quick to give up on this. A nice article stating your position and your reasons for it may not get you on an expedition, but if it gets some blokes with some pull and backing from any well funded research group to do some serious thinking, it just might get the ball rolling.

It never hurts to try.
 

Steven Hall

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Mike, it would be an utter waste of time. As Churchill said, ‘give me the tools and we’ll do the job’. I don’t dream of diving to Titanic. Nor do I entertain thoughts of even attending an expedition. You cannot upset an individual by taking away something they don’t even have, or reasonable opportunity of having. If I don’t achieve anything further beyond the TTSM books, I’m quite happy to watch others do it.
 
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