Recovery of moreTitanic items

AL Glover

Member
Apr 15, 2005
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hello all,hope you are well, just curious,when shown,each dive shows,an extra anchor on the deck of the SHIP,just curious,
(A) would that and other big items be to heavy to recover,befor they 'eventually" cause the deck to give way from their wt,?
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Erik Wood

Member
Apr 10, 2001
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168
That is a good question. Although the center anchor looks like it weighs a lot we don't know how much of it has been eaten. I would imagine over time what you suggest could happen
 

AL Glover

Member
Apr 15, 2005
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hello Cap,Hope U R well,Thank you for the reply & would like to ask you,
(taking it for granted U are a sea captain,retired)
but do you as a captain 'SIR"
would you like or want to see "something in particular,(a certain item or items) recovered from the 'SHIP'??

and I may as well say it here,
MY FEELINGS TOWARD/about the TITANIC & where she lies is 2 fold for the vistors,scientist,but ESPECIALLY SALVAGERS
(MY OPINION) this is grave,as sure as the ships that lay at Pearl Harbor,
as far as anyone, yes ANYONE goes look,but do not touch, if want to salvage,then go to the debris field,but nothing off either end or inside the ship..

how would you feel, if an "unknown" took say flowers or a picture off your mon or dads grave, i bet you would be mad,

thank you again "Cap" "AA"
 
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Daniel David Myers

Guest
I think of it different. If we don't get it now, the ship will collapse soon and destroy everything in it. we need to save it before its gone and rusticles eat it away. I don't think of it like flowers on a grave, more like a memory of the life the people had on it and to show people how luxurious the ship was. People will eventually loose interest if there is nothing actually from it. I know someone who thinks titanic wasn't even real! But I see where you are coming from in a way...Boone
 
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Jeffrey Word

Guest
I look at it both ways. Both sides are really right in their own ways. Daniel's post is well thought out in my opinion. Because it's true, when the ship collapses in on itself, everything in there will be destroyed. (well, more than likely), and there will be nothing left of what was once inside of the ship.

IF the ship collapses in the fashion they say it will, it will most likely make some areas far more accessable. It will reveal new things and remnants of other areas that are not accessable now. Though, they may not be recognizable at all after a collapse like that. I think a lot of new things will be found when this collapse happens. So, I say wait. To go "into" the ship. Except to explore. Salvaging from in there makes for a much more risky expedition to both humans and equipment. First priority always being humans of course. It would be easy for one of the ROV's to pick up a trinket here and there, or something small. But I'm not sure that a "big" salvage attempt IN the bow itself should be attempted at this current time. It's just too risky.

As far as salvaging from the debris field, I think that's pretty okay. I have problems with them bringing up actual luggage and really personal itmes though. When I say debris field, I'm more referring to wrought-iron, ship pieces are fine IMO, as long as they're laying flat on the bottom and not attached to the ship itself, White Star Line stuff is always a neat find, ship-related stuff. I'm just not sure how I feel about the actual passenger-related things. Looking at them in an exhibit I kind of feel like I'm intruding on someone's privacy. Would you want everyone standing around and gawking at your underwear and toothbrush after you were dead?

Like I say though, there are so many good views that have been made and presented on both sides of this what-seems-to-be ETERNAL argument. And it will be eternal, as every person is NEVER going to agree to the same thing. That's what makes us humans so cool! Personalities and beliefs, and how they all differ and are all very special.

In closing, I want to see things continue to return from the depths of Titanic because one day sooner than later, this "statue, tombstone, memorial, etc" (in reference to the actual ship)will no longer be there in it's still-beautiful state for us to enjoy seeing on TV, from subs, where ever we're lucky enough to see it from.
Passengers things are very neat to see along with things from the ship itself, I can NOT dispute this. But as far as seeing anything else brought up that was personal to a passenger, honestly, I'd rather see a ship's bell or a mast headlight. Or an anchor. ;-)
 

Jason D. Tiller

Moderator
Member
Dec 3, 2000
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Niagara Falls, Ontario
quote:

But I'm not sure that a "big" salvage attempt IN the bow itself should be attempted at this current time. It's just too risky.
Not only that, but it's also immorally wrong. RMSTI proposed this very such thing five years ago. They wanted to rip open the bow and retrieve the Rubiayat, and also to see if they could locate William Carter's Renault in the forward cargo hold.

To say that the members on here were upset once this was known about, is an understatement.​
 
Dec 2, 2000
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Easley South Carolina
>>To say that the members on here were upset once this was known about, is an understatement.<<

The court which is overseeing RMSTI's activities weren't thrilled with it either. They said something in legalese which translated meant: "Don't even *think* about it."

Really, if somebody wants to try and locate whatever's left of the Renault, all they need to do is send an ROV down that wide open hatch and just take photos. It worked for Jim Cameron and is a lot safer then having at it with sharp objects and cutting torches.
 
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Jeffrey Word

Guest
They actually wanted to RIP out a part of the hull to get to that stuff? That is absolutely absurd. Thank GOD that never came to light! How disrespectful can somebody be? This all feeds back to why I say....ya know what, nevermind. I'm NOT going there! lol. At least all it was was a proposition, and not actually carried out. *Sheesh!*
 
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Jeffrey Word

Guest
I wonder if the Rubiayat is indeed still down there in a water-tight container. It couldn't be due to the extreme pressures, could it? Wouldn't it be crushed just like any other "airpockets" that were in the stern during its decent?
 
Dec 2, 2000
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Easley South Carolina
>>They actually wanted to RIP out a part of the hull to get to that stuff? <<

That's about the size of it. I wouldn't be surprised if some future pirate expedition decides to try it either. Given the deteriorating condition of the hull, I hope they provide well for their widows befor the have a go at it. I don't think they'll be coming back.

>>I wonder if the Rubiayat is indeed still down there in a water-tight container.<<

Unlikely. Something like that would have been inside a small crate somewhere. If it's there, my bet is it's long turned to mush.
 

Jason D. Tiller

Moderator
Member
Dec 3, 2000
8,242
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Niagara Falls, Ontario
quote:

The court which is overseeing RMSTI's activities weren't thrilled with it either.
Nope, they sure weren't. Judge Clark was a lot more than just unhappy with Arnie Gellar and company.

quote:

Something like that would have been inside a small crate somewhere. If it's there, my bet is it's long turned to mush.
Agreed, I doubt the actual book is still there, as the paper would have disintegrated a long time ago, but the jewels may have survived.​
 
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Jeffrey Word

Guest
Would the cover to the book have disintegrated? I'm very aware of the gorgeous jewels that were presumably on that version, although the last I heard nobody really knows exactly which "version" of the Rubiayat actually boarded Titanic. It's presumed that it's the Peacock design, but there were several different covers made for the book each with it's own unique jewel design for the cover. I wonder what the covers were made of and if parts of those could exist, besides the jewels. ;-)
 
Apr 11, 2001
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The pressing question in my mind is what makes Titanic in a league of its own when it comes to artifact retrieval? Recently I saw a program by a veteran diver on Andrea Doria. He has salvaged hundreds and hundreds of things, (large and small) from this wreck, as have many others, from the interior primarily, but nobody has anything much to say about it. People died there too and that's an emotional issue for some people. Can anyone here confirm what I have heard about the Lusitania-namely that large quantities of interior fittings, objects, even bits of the ship itself has been scooped up and are now in private collections of well-known ship community personalities? You said a mouthful, Jeffrey, this salvage topic is hotly disputed, and will be till the end of time.

Another question might be this: why is it not disrespectful to display personal items, ship fittings,scraps, etc. when they were gathered up on the surface of the water after the sinking, or were donated by survivors after, but distressing to people if they went underwater? So many bits of panelling, woodwork, lifejackets,passenger souvenirs and possessions and the like were exhibited in many places for years without a murmur, some items very personal in nature.

The King Tut exhibit is making its world tour again, sold out in most cities already. Funny how nobody thinks of that as grave robbing. Most of the museums of the world would have bare walls and shelves if somebody had not "salvaged". I agree that the method of retrieval is a consideration. Destruction, blasting, etc. sounds pretty violent and extreme, and potentially damaging and dangerous. The recent article in the New York Observer about the proposed Battery Park permanent Titanic museum is for me a fitting solution. From a point of security, conservation and accessibility to the world community, this must get done. Artifacts exist, and will not be tossed back into the ocean, so however we personally feel, the future will lie in the preservation and respectful exhibition of these objects.
 
Feb 7, 2005
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I couldn't agree with you more, Shelley.

It seems to me there is a certain degree of hypocrisy in some (not all) of the arguments presented against salvage of Titanic. Like you, I don't hear the same kind of rhetoric when it comes to recovering items from other wrecks where lives were lost. After all, it's a rare case indeed when a ship is lost and no one is lost with it--and there have been countless thousands of ships lost over the course of human history. As far as what is, or is not, off limits then it comes to salvage...I think it's a very weak argument to say that it's OK to pick up (i.e., salvage) an object floating on the surface of the ocean after a ship founders, but not OK to salvage similar items that have made their way to the ocean floor. If the floating object becomes so waterlogged that it sinks to the bottom, does that mean it's now off-limits? When Titanic went down, many people died on the surface--is that area any less sacred? Of course not!

To me the objects recovered, conserved, and displayed are a reminder of what was truly sacred about Titanic--the lives of those who sailed on her.

Denise
 
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sharon rutman

Guest
Also let's not forget the despicable double standard regarding the salvage and display of Titanic's artifacts, especially with the 20th anniversary of the discovery of the wreck so close at hand. Dr. Ballard is also a marine archaeologist who has retrieved his share of artifacts from the ocean. Yet, he is applauded for doing so in the name of science and research. However when the late George Tulloch did the exact same thing in retrieving Titanic's artifacts from the debris field he was reviled as "P T Barnum", a shameless huckster who was only interested in making a fast buck off the Titanic. More contemporary books on the Titanic are solidly anti-salvage, including The Complete Titanic by Stephen Spignesi who devoted two whole chapters in bashing Tulloch and the salvage efforts. Honestly, this can't go unchallenged anymore--after 20 years Bob Ballard's saint act is wearing a tad thin and he should get a new act. He has certainly capitalized on the Titanic through books and the lecture circuit so who is he to criticize anyone else? I, for one, am glad the artifacts have been salvaged and can be preserved for future generations to appreciate and admire. The late George Tulloch was an honorable man and to see his reputation and work besmirched by small minded myopic armchair idiots is disgusting. If you're listening somewhere in the great beyond, George, I, for one, salute your efforts.
 
Apr 3, 2005
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I agree that the majority of the ship should be left alone, but do agree with Parks Stephenson's view's that items of historical value should be saved if at all possible. (The marconi room equipment and the glass etched window that was shown in the most recent dives being just a few examples)
Everyday items should not be touched imho but rare and one of a kind items that could be destroyed should be brought up if possible.
Just my thoughts.....
 

msalazar

Member
Jul 3, 2017
1
0
1
I have long been fascinated by the image of the bathtub marking Captain Smith's quarters. Does anyone know if there are any plans to salvage it, or if its simply not possible? I am thinking it is probably cast iron, so even if it were enamel coated, both interior and exterior, it is still likely too fragile from oxidation and might not survive any salvage attempt, even if the weight were not an issue. I would much appreciate anyone sharing with me the name of the plumbing fixture vendor who supplied Harland & Wollf and the year of manufacture on that bathtub. (1910?) There were surely hundreds, if not thousands made of the same model, or there may be modern day replicas for the vintage restoration trade. Anyone who may know, please share.
 

PRR5406

Member
Jun 9, 2016
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Maine
I have no problem with searching for, and recovering, any significant item which went down with the ship, and is notable for its loss. While I don't wish the ship broken up further in the recovery attempts, I know it will eventually collapse on its own, although probably long after we are all dead. Yes, people died aboard and inside the wreck, but do they really care about being disturbed?
Perhaps what bothers me far more, is the sale of recovered pieces, other than the ubiquitous coal.
 
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Aaron_2016

Guest
I can understand the recovery of items if they hold significant historical importance, but a stack of plates or a broken doorknob is still just a stack of plates and a broken doorknob. As survivor Eva Hart once said, the loss of a single life was worth more than the whole ship. Eventually when the wreck collapses her contents will be salvaged. I just hope the next expedition team doesn't accelerate her collapse on purpose so that her contents can be raised and sold at their own convenience, instead of waiting for nature to take her course.


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