Regence and Old Dutch decore

[Thomas Alexander Roche]

Hello

Does anyone have images of staterooms decorated in Regence and Old Dutch decor? I have images of staterooms in books but they don't tell me the period style they are decorated in.

Can anyone Help?!Please

 

[Dave Gittins]

In Anatomy of the Titanic, starting at page 152, there is a series of photos of cabins in various styles, including the ones you mention.

As usual with this book, be aware that the photos may really be of Olympic, but Titanic would have been much the same.

 

[Thomas Alexander Roche]

Thanks, I will go have a look for it!

 

[Martin Williams]

I've noticed that many board members, when considering the style of first-class suites and staterooms aboard the 'Titanic' and 'Olympic', use 'Regence' and 'Regency' interchangeably. In political terms, the two words, French and English respectively, do indeed mean much the same thing. But, from a decorator's perspective, they are two quite distinctive styles and should not be confused with one another.

'Regence' relates to a style in vogue in France during the early part of the eighteenth century. Louis XV (1710 - 1774) was but a small child when he came to the throne and, until he reached a suitable age to govern, the Duc d'Orleans (nephew of Louis XIV) acted as Regent on his behalf. During his rule, there was a shift towards what would eventually flower into the exuberant rococo style, when curved lines and motifs such as shells, masques, and sinuous foliated scrolls were introduced. Cabriole legs became popular, the use of ormolu became more wide-spread and walnut, rosewood and other woods largely replaced the ebony veneers so extensively used during the previous reign.

'Regency' style, on the other hand, refers to furniture and decor in fashion in the early part of the nineteenth century. Owing to the periodic insanity of his father, George III, the Prince of Wales was appointed Regent in 1811 and ruled as such until his accession as George IV in 1820. However, it could reasonably be said that the key elements of what we now think to be the typically 'Regency' style had been in place since 1800-1805 and remained in evidence well into the 1830s. Furniture characteristic of this period remained neoclassical in feel and appearance although, as the years went on, it became heavier and more ponderous, lavishly upholstered and encrusted with gold-leaf. In this respect, it mirrored the 'Empire' style favoured by Napoleon and Josephine across the Channel. In addition, there was a revival of interest in the antique, with Greek designs becoming particularly popular under the auspices of Thomas Hope. Motifs inspired by India, China and other cultures perceived in the West to be 'mysterious' or 'exotic' also crept in.

It is quite possible, therefore, that there were cabins aboard the 'Titanic' in both the 'Regence' and 'Regency' styles and that they would have been strikingly different in appearance.

As for 'Old' and 'Modern' Dutch...well, I confess myself at sea here! I've never come across these terms used in relation to furniture or interior design anywhere else. What the main characteristics of these styles might be, I have no idea. Period French and English decor has gone in and out of fashion throughout the past three centuries...but Dutch?

 

[Jason Schleisman]

As for 'Old' and 'Modern' Dutch...well, I confess myself at sea here!

Hi Martin! I wonder, could the terms "Old Dutch" and "Modern Dutch" also be somewhat synchronous terms for, what is called in America, "Dutch Colonial Revival"? This was a movement that lasted from the late 1800's through 1950ish. It's main interior decor characteristics included the use of light wood (as opposed to dark), and use of the colors blue and white. Four poster beds, floral prints, and simple, small, practical furniture placed in corners (tables, desks, chairs) are also characteristics of this style. Not to be confused with "American Colonial", although they are similar.

 

[Stanley C Jenkins]

I make no pretence at offering a full answer to the question about the "Old Dutch" style, but as a suggestion it might be worth thinking in terms of mid to late 17th century architecture, when Protestant and Catholic countries developed differing versions of the Baroque style. The Protestant style, as seen in Holland, was much more restrained than the Catholic version, and found favour in England during the Cromwellian period - a time when full-blown south European Baroque became associated, in English minds, with autocratic Catholic regimes such as those in France and Spain. The Dutch, in contrast, were seen as Protestant "good guys" and, despite the occasional Anglo-Dutch sea battle, their style of architecture was much preferred.

 

[Martin Williams]

Hmmm...good points both. Thank you. I think I'm right in saying that Stateroom B-59 was decorated in the 'Old Dutch' style? I need to check the exact number but you'll know the one I mean...the cabin with the four-poster bed, the 'beamed' ceiling, the carved wainscot and the heavily patterned velvet panelling. Cameron loosely modelled Rose's cabin on it in his film. I've always found this style to be very striking...markedly different from the airy white-and-gold 'Louis' look so popular with the Edwardian rich.

As for 'Modern Dutch' - what might that be? Rooting around a little more on the forum, I've found mention of furniture and panelling intended for a vessel of the Holland-America Line being transferred to the 'Titanic' and the 'Olympic' during fitting-out. Is this true? Might this explain the presence of 'Dutch' staterooms aboard English ships?

 

[Jason Schleisman]

Hi Martin, I know what cabin you are referring to.

I can tell you that this room WAS designed by a Dutch firm, H.P. Mutters and Zoon, located in the Netherlands. They designed the interior decor of several staterooms and supplied some of the fabrics used in other areas of the ship as well. They are still around, and have a section on their website devoted to Olympic and Titanic:

De geschiedenis van de Koninklijke Nederlandsche Meubelfabrieken H

Scroll down to the bottom of the page in the link above and you can see some photographs.

As a side note, according to the Shipbuilder, the Holland America liner T.S.S. Rotterdam of 1908 was decorated throughout many first-class areas in "Dutch Renaissance". The Rotterdam was also built by Harland and Wolff. You will notice in photographs that it had wicker furniture in it's first-class vestibule identical to Olympic's and Titanic's.

 

[Jason Schleisman]

In fact, if we look carefully at the photos of Olympic's staterooms on the H.P. Mutters and Zoon page (they are NOT the Titanic's), we are given a photographic example of what is called "Modern" (Dutch, assumedly) and "Dutch Renaissance" perhaps also called Old Dutch. This might answer your question altogether!

 

[Stanley C Jenkins]

I wonder if the term "Old Dutch" was designed for American consumption in an attempt to "sell" the White Star line to the US market? I had not heard of this term before, but am now more or less convinced that "Old Dutch" is another term for the Northern Baroque style that was so fashionable in the UK around 1912? An example might be the well-known grand staircase aboard the Titanic, with its cherubs and debased classical details. Another example is Birkenhead Town Hall - in fact the style was much-favoured for town halls, public libraries and other municipal buildings. (Interestingly, the style has sometimes been called "Titanic Baroque!)

 

[Daniel Klistorner]

All,

It is well known that Olympic and Titanic's grand staircase was decorated in the "William and Mary" style. Whilst I have studied what was decorated in which style on Olympic and Titanic, I do not have much detailed knowledge of the origin and history of the styles themselves. However, I have been to Hampton Court Palace (outside of London), which was the preferred residence of King William and Queen Mary, and there are very striking similarities between the Olympic-class grand staircases and the decor of the apartments which were built for and occupied by the king and queen. This has been previously discussed on ET and I have posted some photos. I think I've also been told in the past that the "William and Mary" style also falls within the scope of the "Jacobean" style.

H.P. Mutters and Zoon were contracted to fit out 12 special staterooms on each ship, Olympic and Titanic (not 24 as it says on the site). I would assume a similar order would have been filled for Britannic. Mutters and Zoon were frequently contracted to design and decorate various interiors for H&W-built ships.

In the coming book (Titanic: The Ship Magnificent) I go into detail about the styles of various 1st Class staterooms and which 12 specific staterooms Mutters and Zoon were responsible for. Samples of some relevant sections can be found on the site (see link in signature below) in the preview for chapter 25. Without going into too much detail here, the "Old Dutch" and "Modern Dutch" were two of the five styles used in the Mutters and Zoon designed staterooms. On the M&Z site, the two styles are referred to as "Dutch Renaissance" and "Modern" respectively.

There were two variations of "Modern Dutch" - one where light oak was used and the beds were enamelled brass; and the other used sycamore for panelling and furniture. The style/appearance was otherwise essentially the same. Old Dutch had dark oak, four-poster bed and a floral frieze. Although photos of Titanic’s B 59 (in Old Dutch) show plain white ceiling panels, Olympic’s stateroom in Old Dutch (photographed in 1911) showed heavily embossed/decorated ceiling panels. Whether this was a conscious omission on Titanic or simply unfinished work due to the rush to complete Titanic, I’m not sure

Going back a little to Martin's post re "Regence" vs "Regency" - I think you make some very good points with regard to the correct spelling. The Shipbuilder refers to this style correctly as "Regence", while I think recently we have opted for the anglicised spelling without realising that we are inadvertently referring to two different design periods. In Olympic and Titanic’s case, there was only one version of that style used, and it was the French “Regence” version which was the predecessor to the style of Louis XV. In fact only one cabin on Olympic and Titanic was decorated in the “Regence” style and it was the starboard C Deck sitting room.

Kind regards,

Daniel.

 

[Stanley C Jenkins]

The Jacobean style would not normally be regarded as the same as the "William & Mary" style (which I think should properly be called the Queen Anne style). Jacobean, or early 17th century architecture tends to be more flamboyant, whereas the later 17th century styles are more restrained. Both display elements of the Baroque style but, as I have said before, the preferred style in Edwardian Britain was "northern Baroque" (as in Holland), which was probably deemed to be more Protestant and thereby more patriotic than Spanish Baroque.

 

[Jason Schleisman]

Yes, "William & Mary" and the original "Queen Anne" styles co-existed for awhile right after the Jacobean period. Not to be confused with the later version of the "Queen Anne" style that emerged again in the 1870's, particularly in the USA.