Restrictions at collapsible C

[Mike Poirier]

I read recently how Frank Goldsmith was separated from his father at boat C and that many men were held
back. But in the end Ismay said there was no one left on deck and he got in as did Carter. Where did that group of men go? Or was it that Goldsmith was in a different boat other than C.

 

[Jaques]

Ismay could have lied.

 

[Remco Hillen]

frank Goldsmith and his mother entered collapsible C, a couple of men tried to get into the boat, it is being sad that an officer fired a gun there to get them out, after they got out, the boat was being filled with woman and childern.
when the boat was to be lowered, mr Carter saw a space free and got in(he didn't asw any woman and childern)

Remco

(source: Inside the Titanic)

 

[Frank Goldsmith (Frankie)]

I am unsure as to where the information about Frank Goldsmith (my dad) being in lifeboat C began. My grandmother and dad both believed that they were in D and as I recall them telling the story, their gestures indicated that they were on the port side of the ship. the women in the boat used the oars to push away from the side of the ship as the boat caught on the rivets as they were lowered. I guess the answer lies in whether the ship was listing to port or starboard at the time they were lowered. Dad talks of this in his book "Echoes in the Night" My garandfather was separated from them in the 2d class dining room wher they had been held for some time along with other 3d class families

 

[Peter Engberg-Klarström]

Dear Mr Goldsmith, regarding Mrs Goldsmith's and her son's escape; Mrs Goldsmith described very well how there were about 40 people in her boat, including four Chinese and some Syrian women. They had to push the boat from the ship's side.
Now, this evidence clearly indicates boat C rather than D;
1. Boat C was almost full, whereas boat D was only half-full. Both boats could accomodate 47 people. There were probably about 40 people in C, and 24 in D.
2. The pushing of a boat from the ship's side is a very clear evidence; this only happened at boat C, not D. The Titanic had a list to port at the time.
3. The fact that the four Chinese is mentioned also clearly indicates boat C; the boat held four Chinese third class passengers (actually sailors belonging to the Donald Line)
4. Boat D picked up Mr Hoyt, a fact not mentioned in the Goldsmith interviews (true, they might not have remembered that particular incident)

All the evidence show that the Goldsmiths were in fact in boat C, which probably was lowered away only a few minutes before boat D. As far as I know the Goldsmiths never mentioned 'boat D' in their 1912 accounts, they said 'the last boat' or something to that effect. I must, however, point out that I wasn't there, so I can't just say 'this is the truth', obviously.

Best regards,

Peter Engberg-Klarström

 

[Frank Goldsmith (Frankie)]

Dear Peter,

Thanks for the input. It has always been "known" in our family that dad and grandmother were on D. I do not have any timeline on when the ship shifted from a starboard to port list, but would be interested in any info.

I have read of the "corridor" created by crewmen and male passengers to allow the women and children through to the boats as being on the port side. Dad had recounted that detail many times as he told his story. He seemed absolutey sure that the sea was to his left as they moved forward to the lifeboat, and I can see him describing it in my mind now.

Be assured that the Goldsmith family really wants to know the truth about that event, and with my sons and nephews we are learning all we can.

Most people did not believe that the ship broke in half prior to sinking as my grandmother told me years ago. In 1912 the words of a third class (woman) passenger carried little weight. I always found my grandmother to be a woman of great character and integrity, Until proven else, if she said she was in D, then she was.

I wish you the happiest of new years and perhaps we can continue the dialog.

Sincerley,
Frank

 

[Dennis Foley (Tophatter)]

I had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Goldsmith at the '73 THS Convention and he clearly indicated to us that he escaped in Boat D. He even showed us the strange path the boat took--instead of rowing away in a straight line it went back towards the stern and then crossed over to the starboard side! Also, someone in the crowd asked about Edith Evans and he responded that he remembered a woman approaching the boat but for some reason being left behind. Boat D it is! Thanks. Dennis Foley

 

[cdohany]

Quartermaster Rowe, in charge of 'C', accounted to how the boat rubbed against the side of the ship as it was lowered. In contrast, Steward Hardy specifically recalled how far boat 'D' swung away from the ship's side as it was lowered.

Chris Dohany

 

[Peter Engberg-Klarström]

Dear everyone, one thing one must bear in mind is that rather few people knew in what boat they escaped by number; most of them would later describe 'the last boat but one' or one could conclude in what boat they were by their description of the fellow passengers; 'there were a number of stewards and firemen in the boat' would exclude port boats and forward starboard ones etc. The people in or near boat 14 would describe the shooting incident etc.
Mrs Goldsmith never stated the number (or in this case, the letter) of her boat. She describes the incidents in or near boat C very well, nothing in her 1912 stories even hint at boat D. 'The last boat' is applicable in both cases; boat C was the last boat on the starboard side - there was no way of knowing what happened on the port side.
My theory is that somebody told the Goldsmiths later on that 'Oh, the last boat, that was boat D', which theoretically is true, but not where the starboard side is concerned. I have met quite a few survivors who have been told 'you were in boat this and that', the survivors themselves wouldn't really know' To me, there is no doubt the Goldsmiths were in boat C, what with the rubbing of the boat against the ship's side, the Chinamen and the Syrians being in the boat, and the fact that the boat actually was full. Mrs Goldsmith said she thought there were some 40 people in it. But again, I wasn't there, all I have got are theories.

Peter