Reversing Engines, Unfair Criticism of Officer Murdoch


Jim Currie

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3 points:
1. Agree probably not wiser but maybe a little more informed. Not for a lot of the Titaniac's but for some. So many of the 97 movie watchers took at face value that Murdoch shot himself. Hopefully some casual surfers of this site or others might learned that that hasn't been proven. Although I liked the 97 movie I never liked that Cameron put that in his movie.
2. Yes its true its getting hard to talk about new stuff in the general sense..I mean the big picture of Titanic. A recent thread pointed that out very well. I answered some questions but after providing a link I realized everything I said had been covered in it...back in 2001. But that being said I learn something new almost every time I come here..especially nautical and mechanical information.
3. You can learn a lot from some of the younger crowd. Especially when it comes to the digital world. I know a lot about computers. I came up thru ranks so to speak. Started when you actually had to walk inside the computer to fix it. But I had to learn all that and have to think about it when something doesn't work right. I've had one of my 16 year old relatives point out stuff to me that I wouldn't have thought of. Coding is almost like their primary language. Its in their DNA now. I was impressed with his grasp of digital logic. Now if I could get him to change a tire I might put him back in my will...*S*
Well spotted, Steven, Bottom line is we all have something to offer. Totally reject at your peril. teach when you can and learn from your teachers
 
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Jim Currie

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I wish Ocean Liners would come back. Not one single Liner was the same-including Olympic and Titanic. The Lusitania, the Aquatania, the Mauratania, all great Vessels. If I ever start a company, It's going to be for ocean liners. These days, Ships, especially Cruise Ships, look so...ugly, Copy 'n Pasted. I hate the look of them. Ocean liners, were beautiful, with different colors, trim, furnishings... these days its just about the Slip 'n Slide, or the Casinos!!!

Ok rant over. As for Jim's 'entourage', what entourage?
I agree. Most cruise liner look like blocks of flats on their side or giant training shoes. Do you know that one of them actually plays the first few bars of "When you dream upon a Star" instead of the conventional deep tone single note? When I lived on the island, we had at least 4 of them a day. al year round It was like visual torture. However, they are wealth-generators and that is really all a ship is.
 
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Cam Houseman

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I agree. Most cruise liner look like blocks of flats on their side or giant training shoes. Do you know that one of them actually plays the first few bars of "When you dream upon a Star" instead of the conventional deep tone single note? When I lived on the island, we had at least 4 of them a day. al year round It was like visual torture. However, they are wealth-generators and that is really all a ship is.
I heard that The Queen Mary is the last one functioning Ocean Liner. I'd make my company, (not go for the Titanic, however, that seems to fail every time someone tries..) Maybe the R.M.S Bismark, with her White Star Line painted funnels. That would be moderately sized.

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I agree. Most cruise liner look like blocks of flats on their side or giant training shoes. Do you know that one of them actually plays the first few bars of "When you dream upon a Star" instead of the conventional deep tone single note? When I lived on the island, we had at least 4 of them a day. al year round It was like visual torture. However, they are wealth-generators and that is really all a ship is.
I agree. I can look at a modern day oil tanker and say..."nice ship,an engineering marvel"...Look at at a modern day liner and it looks a giant shoebox. As it been pointed out before its the changeing buisness. Liners used to be built to get you to your destination in style. Today the cruise ship is your destination. I guess they have to build them that way to fit in all the goodies everyone wants.
 
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But back to Murdoch. Cameron later said he thought it was mistake to put that scene in his movie, or words to that effect. I give him credit for that. Given the circumstances of how everything went down...with the time involved and other things I'm not convinced that anybody could have handled it any better than Murdoch did. Thats just my opinion of course as a non-mariner. But thats where at I'm at with the bridge activity that night. Cheers everybody.
 
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I heard that The Queen Mary is the last one functioning Ocean Liner. I'd make my company, (not go for the Titanic, however, that seems to fail every time someone tries..) Maybe the R.M.S Bismark, with her White Star Line painted funnels. That would be moderately sized.

View attachment 49961
You might be on to something. Many of the smaller cruise ships look pretty nice. Especially compared to the big box liners.
 
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Cam Houseman

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But back to Murdoch. Cameron later said he thought it was mistake to put that scene in his movie, or words to that effect. I give him credit for that. Given the circumstances of how everything went down...with the time involved and other things I'm not convinced that anybody could have handled it any better than Murdoch did. Thats just my opinion of course as a non-mariner. But thats where at I'm at with the bridge activity that night. Cheers everybody.
Regarding Murdoch's "Unfair Criticism" I feel he un-rightly gets that. He was responsible for saving many men, couples, Young men, and Female crew, when they were turned away on the Port side by Lightoller.
 

Julian Atkins

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I happen to like Cam Houseman's posts, with some reservations, as the innocence of youth pops the pomposity and staging of us of older generations.

Boxhall created a fiction that must have been manufactured by him under who knows who suggested who knows what to whom of the worthy Murdoch unable to take fully evasive action.

This was to avoid the White Star Line being involved in massive legal claims on both sides of The Atlantic. He got no reward for this, so remained bitter about it all till he died.

Except Boxhall slipped up. I happen to think he was already unwell the night of the tragedy. And he didn't slip up once that fateful night; he slipped up multiple times.

But nevermind; Rostron thought his CQD position splendid, and who would dare question the plaudit of Rostron at the time!

Look at the wider picture and all the evidence, not just the Inquiry transcripts.
 
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How big was the R.M.S Bismark/Majestic compared to Titanic?
Well just going by the numbers she was bigger than the Olympic class. The largest liner owned by WSL. After the merger with Cunard I'm not sure. But one of the mariners here could give you a better answer. Some like to use different numbers than gross tonnage and what it means. Its kind of like airliners. Unloaded a 707 might be at 250,000 lbs..fully loaded she could be 375,000. Which number represents the more accurate figure? Anyway the Majestic was a grand ship of her time. Later she had a third name..the Caledonia.
 
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Julian Atkins

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I would quite like to have Arun's view on Boxhall's medical condition at the time of the 14/15th April.

If Arun doesn't have some of the primary source material to hand, I might be able to assist.
 
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Cam Houseman

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Well just going by the numbers she was bigger than the Olympic class. The largest liner owned by WSL. After the merger with Cunard I'm not sure. But one of the mariners here could give you a better answer. Some like to use different numbers than gross tonnage and what it means. Its kind of like airliners. Unloaded a 707 might be at 250,000 lbs..fully loaded she could be 375,000. Which number represents the more accurate figure? Anyway the Majestic was a grand ship of her time. Later she had a third name..the Caledonia.
Thank you Steven. In my Opinion, she looked beautiful. Although I think I'm prejudiced for the certain classic Four Funnel liners...

Should've slapped another Funnel...heck, do it for better ventilation. Kitchens, I know, can feel tight and stuffy, if there's a bunch of people in there.
 
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Cam Houseman

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I happen to like Cam Houseman's posts, with some reservations, as the innocence of youth pops the pomposity and staging of us of older generations.
Thank you, Julian. I love being here, and meeting y'all.

As for Boxhall, unfortunately we won't know what was going on unless we were there ourselves.
 
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Arun Vajpey

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I would quite like to have Arun's view on Boxhall's medical condition at the time of the 14/15th April.

If Arun doesn't have some of the primary source material to hand, I might be able to assist.
Thanks Julian, but with respect I would like to decline that offer. There are several reasons.

- When I retired in September 2019, I wanted to put 41 years of medical practice firmly behind me and become a 'normal person'. I therefore did something that almost no other UK doctor usually does upon retirement - surrendered my medical licence (yes, my American friends, that spelling IS correct ;) ) to the GMC voluntarily and had the 'Dr' title removed. Therefore, it would not be appropriate for me to start in that direction.

- None of us know whether Boxhall's medical condition affected his judgement and decision making that night or indeed during the voyage. That being the case, it would be unfair of me to use my medical background to try and speculate if it did.

-Thirdly, this thread has already been derailed multiple times by many of us who are sneering and jeering at each other while agreeing on the root of the subject - that Murdoch was unfairly blamed by his critics. I don't want to start another pointless skirmish.
 
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Arun Vajpey

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However, unlike you and everyone else on this site, I can get a very clear picture of what the witness statement is painting because I only have to close my eyes and think back to a time when I was in a similar situation, doing exactly the same things
No Jim, I don't agree entirely with you on that point, but let us leave it at that. I really wish that the Mods would close this now pointless thread while all of us.....and Murdoch are ahead.
 

Julian Atkins

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Seems a bit odd for Arun to ask to shut down a "pointless thread" he jumped on and drove forward...

Some of us know what Jim and Sam are sparring over...

The Moderators have shut down/locked virtually all discussion over The Californian, but The Californian is why I continue to pay my subs on here; and the Moderators's clear statement on all this would be welcome - indeed from PH himself, as I am paying for this site via my annual subs.

I know that the Moderators and PH don't accord with my view by inference. They might take the view that certain of us ought to be banned and our subs no longer wanted for dare to mention The Californian or matters pertaining to it. Or they might just to decide to ban Jim Currie in isolation, which personally, and as much as I vehemently disagree with him on some matters, I don't support.

Much of the stuff on this thread of recent has really been about which heading Titantic ended up - after hard a stern, hard a port, ring down telegraph to engine room, stop engines, boiler rooms then stop (feeding the boilers and shut the boiler dampers).

I have not the slightest doubt Boxhall was wrong, and Titanic ended up heading northwards. This is what it is all about. I have lots of questions that I have myself formed an opinion upon as to what Murdoch did before and just after the collision.

I am being quite frank here; I don't have an agenda, my 'not the slightest doubt' is open to persuasion, and I am open to other views and debate over all this. But if you come to this with an agenda over The Californian, then state it, then debate. Put your colours to your mast!
 
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Cam Houseman

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Seems a bit odd for Arun to ask to shut down a "pointless thread" he jumped on and drove forward...

Some of us know what Jim and Sam are sparring over...

The Moderators have shut down/locked virtually all discussion over The Californian, but The Californian is why I continue to pay my subs on here; and the Moderators's clear statement on all this would be welcome - indeed from PH himself, as I am paying for this site via my annual subs.

I know that the Moderators and PH don't accord with my view by inference. They might take the view that certain of us ought to be banned and our subs no longer wanted for dare to mention The Californian or matters pertaining to it. Or they might just to decide to ban Jim Currie in isolation, which personally, and as much as I vehemently disagree with him on some matters, I don't support.

Much of the stuff on this thread of recent has really been about which heading Titantic ended up - after hard a stern, hard a port, ring down telegraph to engine room, stop engines, boiler rooms then stop (feeding the boilers and shut the boiler dampers).

I have not the slightest doubt Boxhall was wrong, and Titanic ended up heading northwards. This is what it is all about. I have lots of questions that I have myself formed an opinion upon as to what Murdoch did before and just after the collision.

I am being quite frank here; I don't have an agenda, my 'not the slightest doubt' is open to persuasion, and I am open to other views and debate over all this. But if you come to this with an agenda over The Californian, then state it, then debate. Put your colours to your mast!
ooooo ok!
I really hope this doesn't get the thread shut down. If it does, I shall exile myself, as punishment, for a period of time. I want y'all to know I am truly sorry, should this happen. But, when I said something earlier, the thread was kill-switched.

I think the Californian was a scapegoat for the tragedy. People were angry, and in pain. They needed something to blame. They needed to pin the blame on something to make themselves feel better. As a bully does. Then, when the people found out the Californian spotted distress rockets, it was all over for Captain Lord, and his crew.
 
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Arun Vajpey

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Seems a bit odd for Arun to ask to shut down a "pointless thread" he jumped on and drove forward...
I drove forward yes, but then came up against a brick wall and felt that there was not much point in trying to get through. Therefore, I decided that the old adage "Discretion is better than valour" and backed off. There are other such old proverbs applicable here, but I'll leave those to your imagination.

Anyway, who am I to ask to close this or any other thread? I am just a rather tired member. You guys carry on all you want.
 
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Jim Currie

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I drove forward yes, but then came up against a brick wall and felt that there was not much point in trying to get through. Therefore, I decided that the old adage "Discretion is better than valour" and backed off. There are other such old proverbs applicable here, but I'll leave those to your imagination.

Anyway, who am I to ask to close this or any other thread? I am just a rather tired member. You guys carry on all you want.
You have a very short memory, Arun...I do not. Allow me to remind you of the last bit of your post No.308
" I know that these points have been argued to the death and I doubt if there is any more point going on. I wish the mods would close this thread."
 

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