JJAstorII
Member
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Aidan Bowe
Member
Hi. By no way am I an expert on White Star Silver but I have seen enough examples of the various designs used onboard to question this one. I recently posted a link about a dubious tea set supposedly from RMS Carpathia...the item though had a White Star flag acid etched onto it as well as the words White Star Line...I questioned the seller as to how come Carpathia had suddenly become a White Star ship but surprisingly got no reply! There seem to be a few sellers currently on eBay (mainly from the south coast area of the UK) selling a variety of old pieces of silver all marked up with these acid etched White Star flags. No White Star silver to my knowledge was acid etched but either deeply engraved or stamped. An expert on all things White Star recently posted an excellent article on what to look out for when it comes to White Star silver. I'll find the link and post it. Maybe other members can comment on your piece?
White Star Line silver plate, a brief buying guide. Advice for collectors old & new.
White Star Line silver plate, a brief buying guide. Advice for collectors old & new.
JJAstorII
Member
Hi there, thanks for your reply. I too am often very concerned over fakes. However, the seller of this piece seems to have quality merchandise, but I am certainly not exempt from being fooled. I too am curious if anyone has an opinion on this? It is marked with the Olympic. I don't know much about acid etched vs engraved vs ink marked, but I would love anyones opinion! And yes please do find that link! Though I would be devastated I would still love to know it's authenticity.
Last edited by a moderator:
JJAstorII
Member
After doing some research and finding an article on Pursers Locker (a site I buy from sometimes) you are 100% correct. This is sadly a fake. Buyer beware, I should've known do to several things that after reading the article, I'm *slap my forehead* about it.
1) Like you said no Acid etching. All was stamped in the metal and the flags etc were engraved or raised metal
2) The plating was so thick on these that they should still be untarnished regardless of age
3) Lack of proper Elikington & Co, Birmingham Hallmarks (should've been the most obvious)
4) No White Star Line Silver Service was named with the ship. (Titanic, Olympic, Britannic) They only said White Star Line which, again, was stamped (all evenly as it was a single stamp) There is a rare exception to this with a few Olympic named items but the name of the ship is, once more, stamped not etched.
Thanks again so much I now am returning this item to the UK, and will be much more aware now. I appreciate your responding to this.
IDK if the moderators want to delete this or perhaps retitle it as "FAKE" so people can see what the fakes are looking like?
1) Like you said no Acid etching. All was stamped in the metal and the flags etc were engraved or raised metal
2) The plating was so thick on these that they should still be untarnished regardless of age
3) Lack of proper Elikington & Co, Birmingham Hallmarks (should've been the most obvious)
4) No White Star Line Silver Service was named with the ship. (Titanic, Olympic, Britannic) They only said White Star Line which, again, was stamped (all evenly as it was a single stamp) There is a rare exception to this with a few Olympic named items but the name of the ship is, once more, stamped not etched.
Thanks again so much I now am returning this item to the UK, and will be much more aware now. I appreciate your responding to this.
IDK if the moderators want to delete this or perhaps retitle it as "FAKE" so people can see what the fakes are looking like?
A
Aidan Bowe
Member
Hey I'm so sorry you've been caught out. I've reported these fakes to eBay countless times but they've done nothing to pull them. I guess if they're not Nike or Adidas fakes they're not interested. Really feel for you. Definitely lodge a complaint with them though if your seller doesn't refund you. All the best and keep us updated as to what happens.
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Phil baker
Member
I saw an item like this in 1972 at an auction in West London. You can see that it is clearly not acid etched ! Someone has put that its fake, and to be honest I think that’s a very bold statement. I have collected many postcards and white star line items over the years and all sorts of memorabilia was for sale at the time!! They sold all manner of things on board as souvenirs!! If it looks old then that’s your best guide!! It all depends upon how the item was listed as to whether it’s fake!! If it’s listed as memorabilia then it’s not fake because that’s exactly what it is !!
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Phil baker
Member
Just seen a piece sell at kempton to a buyer that’s been on Dickinson’s real deal ! For £320! I’m damn sure they wouldn’t be buying fakes! There’s too many people loosely using the word “fake”!! So many white star line items exist so it’s not an exact science !! I myself have bought similar items and the age is simply undeniable !! You cannot fake that kind of Patina with chemicals !! I challenge anyone to try it !!!! Good luck !!!!
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Ioannis Georgiou
Member
So they were selling silver plates and other stuff aboard the ship right? Where exactly? Did they had a souvenir shop aboard? What is your primary source for that claim?
Michael H. Standart
Member
>>Just seen a piece sell at kempton to a buyer that’s been on Dickinson’s real deal ! For £320!<<
So what?
>> I’m damn sure they wouldn’t be buying fakes!<<
Maybe not knowingly/
>> There’s too many people loosely using the word “fake”!!<<
No they're not.
>> So many white star line items exist so it’s not an exact science !!<<
Actually it is. In establishing whether or not something is genuine or a fake, provenance is EVERYTHING.
>>I myself have bought similar items and the age is simply undeniable !!<<
Which may be true but again, so what?
>> You cannot fake that kind of Patina with chemicals !! I challenge anyone to try it !!!! Good luck !!!!<<
Aside from the fact that this is not entirely accurate, who would say that you need to? There was no silver or dinner service which was unique to any one ship. White Star, like any shipping line, bought specific designs in bulk and used them on every ship of the line. Even if what you have IS contemporary to the time, you have no way of knowing what ship it was used on if ever.
On the question of buying souvenirs, would you mind telling me where the ship's store and shopping arcades were located and how you know what was carried on inventory?
So what?
>> I’m damn sure they wouldn’t be buying fakes!<<
Maybe not knowingly/
>> There’s too many people loosely using the word “fake”!!<<
No they're not.
>> So many white star line items exist so it’s not an exact science !!<<
Actually it is. In establishing whether or not something is genuine or a fake, provenance is EVERYTHING.
>>I myself have bought similar items and the age is simply undeniable !!<<
Which may be true but again, so what?
>> You cannot fake that kind of Patina with chemicals !! I challenge anyone to try it !!!! Good luck !!!!<<
Aside from the fact that this is not entirely accurate, who would say that you need to? There was no silver or dinner service which was unique to any one ship. White Star, like any shipping line, bought specific designs in bulk and used them on every ship of the line. Even if what you have IS contemporary to the time, you have no way of knowing what ship it was used on if ever.
On the question of buying souvenirs, would you mind telling me where the ship's store and shopping arcades were located and how you know what was carried on inventory?
Rob Lawes
Member
Very interesting but not what we were dicussing. We were talking about items for sale on e-bay.
Was this one of your pieces ?? Did this piece belong to the same person selling the fake, oops I've used that word, Carpathia / White Star tea set shown in post one ??
It's totally possible to fake anything these days if you are of a mind to do so.
Why don't you post some pictures of your items that you are very pleased to have. I'm interested in seeing your pieces.
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Mark Baber
Staff member
Moderator
Member
Moderator's note: A message containing personally abusive content has been removed, as have half a dozen responses.
