to all members of the board it is my displeasure to announce that rms titanic,inc has required the rights to salvage the cunard ship the carpathia the only ship who responded to titanic's call for help when she was struck with a iceberg i know that it was too late for most of the passengers by the time carpathis came but atleast she was able to save some of them i do not know how old this news is but it is new to me and i thought that i would be the first to report this news to all of you and they plan to have an expidition to the carpathia sometime in the future but i dont know when or if they have already done it but i thought this info was important to report to you so that you know that now that the carpathia has been found as you already know now you know who has control of the salvage of the ship and what they plan to do with it jennifer mueller
Rms titanic inc gets rights to the wreckage of carpathia
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Christine Geyer
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Deleted member 173198
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I propose this question:- How can the RMTInc claim rights to the Carpathia when she's roughly within the vicinity off the Irish Coast?
Andrew W.
Andrew W.
My understanding is that they obtained the rights from the Receiver of Wrecks. In short, they followed the law. (Shrug)
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
All merchant ships that were insured by the British government during war time, and then subsequently sunk during war time, still belong to the British government. So it is with Carpathia and many others. The government retains the rights because of the paid insurance claims for both the ship and the cargo.
If you know of a ship that sank during wartime, and the government paid off the insurance claim, you can purchase the rights to the ship WHETHER OR NOT it has been discovered.
I've had several excellent conversations via email with the Receiver of Wreck (sic) in Southampton regarding Carpathia specifically.
As I recall, the ship lies in approximately 500 feet of water some 120 miles from the coast of Ireland.
Bill Willard
If you know of a ship that sank during wartime, and the government paid off the insurance claim, you can purchase the rights to the ship WHETHER OR NOT it has been discovered.
I've had several excellent conversations via email with the Receiver of Wreck (sic) in Southampton regarding Carpathia specifically.
As I recall, the ship lies in approximately 500 feet of water some 120 miles from the coast of Ireland.
Bill Willard
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Deleted member 173198
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To Michael H. Standart & Bill Willard.
I thank you both for your recent updates and giving answers to my question. There's no doubt, I have certainly learnt something tonight!
Regards-Andrew W.
I thank you both for your recent updates and giving answers to my question. There's no doubt, I have certainly learnt something tonight!
Regards-Andrew W.
No problem Andrew. From Bill's post, I learned something too. But, that's the whole point of this board. We all share what we know and everybody's a winner!
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
What is on board to make her so valuable, besides the name itself. I wonder what the real reason is behind the salvage rights. Do they have the rights to go inside as well? Colleen
Colleen, The only things that I've heard of that were of value, although this applies now and not then, were a collection of "tokens of appreciation" in the form of silverware etc. presented by both Titanic survivors and relatives to Cpt. Rostron and crew. These were supposedly still on board the Carpathis when she sank.
Although they must be now worth a good deal of money, it hardly seems possible that their salvage could have anything to do with it.
Although they must be now worth a good deal of money, it hardly seems possible that their salvage could have anything to do with it.
The collection of 'appreciation' items would be in the purser's office of Carpathia according to record. The position of the ship makes access to that area virtually impossible at this time.
The possibility exists of the sale of pieces of the ship, not at all dissimilar to the fate of the Lusitania artifacts.
RMSTI has numerous items still at the wreck site of Titanic. The company will have its periodic report in front of Judge Clarke and Judge Smith in the next few weeks. They have laid the groundwork for discussion of rights to penetrate the bow. Arguments are the raising of the Hunley, here in my home state, with nine confederate veterans on board, and the raising of the remnants of the Monitor.
RMSTI has as a goal the mail bags through the starboard opening, and cargo from the bunker hatch forward. They have also stated publicly about recovering at least one anchor.
Bill Willard
The possibility exists of the sale of pieces of the ship, not at all dissimilar to the fate of the Lusitania artifacts.
RMSTI has numerous items still at the wreck site of Titanic. The company will have its periodic report in front of Judge Clarke and Judge Smith in the next few weeks. They have laid the groundwork for discussion of rights to penetrate the bow. Arguments are the raising of the Hunley, here in my home state, with nine confederate veterans on board, and the raising of the remnants of the Monitor.
RMSTI has as a goal the mail bags through the starboard opening, and cargo from the bunker hatch forward. They have also stated publicly about recovering at least one anchor.
Bill Willard
hi, today I have found this article: the Carpathia has be dived recently
http://www.divernet.com/news/
http://www.divernet.com/news/
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Henning,
I've enjoyed every minute searching through this site. This is indeed BRILLIANT NEWS, and thank you for taking time and letting us all know.
Regards-Andrew W.
I've enjoyed every minute searching through this site. This is indeed BRILLIANT NEWS, and thank you for taking time and letting us all know.
Regards-Andrew W.
Hi Beverly,
RMSTI attempted a faux-expedition and it fell through.
Dik Barton tried to purchase a 'tourist' dive to Titanic on board the Keldysh in one of the MIR submersibles. The organizer of the dives refused him passage and returned his deposit. He was denied in St. John's after flying all the way up there. He did call the organizer at the dock and pleaded his case to no avail. He returned home. The Russians refused to allow him on the Keldysh also because of his actions during the latter days of the 2000 Expedition.
Allegedly Barton had requested that coal be recovered during his dive. The only rationale for this would be to present this to the Norfolk Judges as "presence at the wreck site" in order to maintain salvor status.
No expedition can occur with submersibles this year or next. IFREMER does not want to work with current management, and the Russians refuse to work with them again. Oceaneering, owners of the Magellan vehicle which brought back wonderful images in 1998, is suing RMSTI for $900,000 (+/-) based on the 2000 Expedition. Who is left to facilitate the operation?
Secondly, if you read the financial reports, the company has blown all of its savings on treasure hunting and consultants fees and so forth. No funds exist of the magnitude needed to operate a successful expedition. Television sponsorship of an expedition is a dream.
If a management change occurs, some of these issues will be resolved.
Bill Willard
RMSTI attempted a faux-expedition and it fell through.
Dik Barton tried to purchase a 'tourist' dive to Titanic on board the Keldysh in one of the MIR submersibles. The organizer of the dives refused him passage and returned his deposit. He was denied in St. John's after flying all the way up there. He did call the organizer at the dock and pleaded his case to no avail. He returned home. The Russians refused to allow him on the Keldysh also because of his actions during the latter days of the 2000 Expedition.
Allegedly Barton had requested that coal be recovered during his dive. The only rationale for this would be to present this to the Norfolk Judges as "presence at the wreck site" in order to maintain salvor status.
No expedition can occur with submersibles this year or next. IFREMER does not want to work with current management, and the Russians refuse to work with them again. Oceaneering, owners of the Magellan vehicle which brought back wonderful images in 1998, is suing RMSTI for $900,000 (+/-) based on the 2000 Expedition. Who is left to facilitate the operation?
Secondly, if you read the financial reports, the company has blown all of its savings on treasure hunting and consultants fees and so forth. No funds exist of the magnitude needed to operate a successful expedition. Television sponsorship of an expedition is a dream.
If a management change occurs, some of these issues will be resolved.
Bill Willard
Hello Bill,
Thank you for the information. It was to my understanding, that if RMSTI did not do any expeditions every year to recover artifacts, that they would lose their rights as salvor. Do you think that RMSTI will lose that status??
What happened on the 2000 expedition that is causing all the negative feeback and the lawsuits?
I didn't know that they were facing such problems.
Beverly
Thank you for the information. It was to my understanding, that if RMSTI did not do any expeditions every year to recover artifacts, that they would lose their rights as salvor. Do you think that RMSTI will lose that status??
What happened on the 2000 expedition that is causing all the negative feeback and the lawsuits?
I didn't know that they were facing such problems.
Beverly
RMSTI has to 'maintain a presence at the wreck' to maintain salvor rights. The company under Tulloch has attempted to visit the site every two years for expeditions. There is no 'every year' mandate.
At the end of 1999, Tulloch fell victim to a hostile takeover. The legitimacy of that takeover has been questioned and is under investigation by officials. Joe Marsh, the major shareholder, and others publicly made statements that implied about selling the artifacts. These did not bide well with Judge Clarke. This led to Judge Clarke's order on 7/28/00 that the bow should be left alone. Also, statements were made, and a document produced dealing with dive objectives of the expedition. This included an anchor, mail from the mail room, and many targets on the bow.
Oceaneering, Inc. had the Magellan ROV at the site. It had worked on the 98 expedition. The Keldysh somehow backed up over Magellan's tether and caused it to be inoperable. Oceaneering was 'dismissed' and sent home. Oceaneering had specific clauses in its contract about penetration of the wreck, and is suing for the balance owed to them for breach of contract. This is almost $900,000.
Geller stated in court, under oath, in March, that he had enough $$ to finance a $5 million expedition by being able to 'write a check for the entire amount' (paraphrased). The expedition only cost $2 million, and $250,000 had to be borrowed from a private source at an unusual rate to pay the Russians. They stopped mid-ocean and refused to move further until they received confirmation of a wire transfer of the owed funds. They were promised a bonus, which they did not receive.
Basically, it was a mess. Harris was fired near the end of the expedition, and Barton took over. In the terms of several from the ship, they were literally held prisoner and treated as such by Barton.
Plus, read the Der Spiegel account of what happened. Michaela Schiessel (forgive the spelling) had a third party account of what happened. If you are interested, and can't find it, email me off board and I'll forward a copy to you.
This is just the beginning. It got much worse.
Bill
At the end of 1999, Tulloch fell victim to a hostile takeover. The legitimacy of that takeover has been questioned and is under investigation by officials. Joe Marsh, the major shareholder, and others publicly made statements that implied about selling the artifacts. These did not bide well with Judge Clarke. This led to Judge Clarke's order on 7/28/00 that the bow should be left alone. Also, statements were made, and a document produced dealing with dive objectives of the expedition. This included an anchor, mail from the mail room, and many targets on the bow.
Oceaneering, Inc. had the Magellan ROV at the site. It had worked on the 98 expedition. The Keldysh somehow backed up over Magellan's tether and caused it to be inoperable. Oceaneering was 'dismissed' and sent home. Oceaneering had specific clauses in its contract about penetration of the wreck, and is suing for the balance owed to them for breach of contract. This is almost $900,000.
Geller stated in court, under oath, in March, that he had enough $$ to finance a $5 million expedition by being able to 'write a check for the entire amount' (paraphrased). The expedition only cost $2 million, and $250,000 had to be borrowed from a private source at an unusual rate to pay the Russians. They stopped mid-ocean and refused to move further until they received confirmation of a wire transfer of the owed funds. They were promised a bonus, which they did not receive.
Basically, it was a mess. Harris was fired near the end of the expedition, and Barton took over. In the terms of several from the ship, they were literally held prisoner and treated as such by Barton.
Plus, read the Der Spiegel account of what happened. Michaela Schiessel (forgive the spelling) had a third party account of what happened. If you are interested, and can't find it, email me off board and I'll forward a copy to you.
This is just the beginning. It got much worse.
Bill
Sounds like a real mess with an attitude. If it keeps up at this rate, I have a feeling that Arnie Geller & Co. won't be around much longer. Sooner or later, the stockholders are going to be saying, "Enough is enough."
I just wonder who's going to be left standing after the bloodbath is done. Any ideas?
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
I just wonder who's going to be left standing after the bloodbath is done. Any ideas?
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
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Deleted member 173198
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Michael,
Nobody will be left standing once the bloodbath is done. At the end of the day there'll only be loser's............ not winners!
Regards-Andrew W.
Nobody will be left standing once the bloodbath is done. At the end of the day there'll only be loser's............ not winners!
Regards-Andrew W.
Shareholders have little avenue to complain in RMSTI at the present.
The last shareholder's meeting was November of 1998. There has been no official word from the company regarding a shareholder's statement since early 1999 from Tulloch.
Geller and the takeover team are now entrenched in the management, giving away over 4,000,000 shares and share options to 'friends'. Now, a 51% majority is much larger.
Still, shareholders have not had a say. Powers higher than I are involved, and hopefully they can restore normalcy to a solid company now unstable.
Who would be left? I don't know, but I believed George Tulloch a whole lot more than I believe any words that Arnie Geller announces. Plus, Tulloch had a heart for this ship. I believe that Geller cares about the money he's making for himself.
BW
The last shareholder's meeting was November of 1998. There has been no official word from the company regarding a shareholder's statement since early 1999 from Tulloch.
Geller and the takeover team are now entrenched in the management, giving away over 4,000,000 shares and share options to 'friends'. Now, a 51% majority is much larger.
Still, shareholders have not had a say. Powers higher than I are involved, and hopefully they can restore normalcy to a solid company now unstable.
Who would be left? I don't know, but I believed George Tulloch a whole lot more than I believe any words that Arnie Geller announces. Plus, Tulloch had a heart for this ship. I believe that Geller cares about the money he's making for himself.
BW
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