RMS TItanic Inc Seeks Permission To Sell Artifacts

Mike Bull

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Dec 23, 2000
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I understood that the judge had already heard this request of theirs, and said a VERY firm NO to it.
 

Bill Willard

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Mar 24, 2001
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Mike, Judge Clarke and Judge Smith said a very firm NO. We applaud their decision. However Mr. Geller, under the guise of RMSTI is appealing the authority of the court over the artifacts to the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals. Briefs were due in Nov 26, and Mr. Geller filed a 56 page brief. I will order my copy Monday of the brief. As in the Davis article, arguments are scheduled for mid January.

Michael, hi neighbor! RB is the Raging Bull page, famous for the Geller suit against the RB7. Go to www.ragingbull.lycos.com

I would advise to peruse the latest 100 or so postings before joining. To do this, enter SOST in the symbol box on the left side of the page. You'll see how many people have posted on this issue. On the home page, under the symbol box, is a "join now" should you wish to post your feelings. It is free. You will not be asked anything financially (no credit card info). The personal information you record is kept private unless you put it on your profile page.

Someone emailed me... "Why on RB? Why don't we write the Judges or something like that?"

Well, the SEC reads RB. This may speed their investigation just a bit, to know that the entire Titanic community (with a few exceptions) are against the sale of the artifacts. Geller has represented that everyone wants this. Secondly, the appellate court is only interested in the rulings of the Norfolk court vs the law. Sentiment may not coincide with the law.

Bill
 

Bill Willard

Member
Mar 24, 2001
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The REAL DANGER if we don't win.

All, the real danger in this situation is staggering.

Premise 1) Geller wins the appeal. He sells the artifacts to himself and his foundation. RMSTI shareholders get butkus for their investments. The company ceases to operate.

Premise 1A) At that point, salvage rights are up for grabs. A fight will occur to see WHO can pillage and/or strip mine the ship for auction purposes.

Premise 1B) Everything brought up will be sold, including personal effects. Geller's plan, his poorly thought-out plan, trashes Titanic.

File this under cause and effect.

Bill
 

Adam Leet

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May 18, 2001
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I wonder if Ballard or Cameron could or would make a go at claiming ownership. Which reminds me of my question a while back of whether returning with photographs carries the same legal weight as actual salvaged artifacts. I know it worked for the South Carolina supreme court regarding the SS Central America case.


Adam
 

Mark Taylor

Member
Mar 18, 2005
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>I wonder if Ballard or Cameron could or would make a go at claiming ownership. Which reminds me of my question a while back of whether returning with photographs carries the same legal weight as actual salvaged artifacts. I know it worked for the South Carolina supreme court regarding the SS Central America case. <

Nope. To claim salvage rights in federal court, you need more than just a photograph. Ballard could not make a claim because at the time of discovery he was on contract with the U.S.Navy at the time. Cameron cannot make a claim because he does not have anything to show the court that he has some material possession over the wreck (like RMS Titanic Inc did). Unless the court reverses itself or the salvage claim is abandoned, the chance of someone getting salvage rights is pretty low. The only way would be to buy the company and get the rights that come with it.

Mark Taylor
titanicnewschannel.com
 
May 8, 2001
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Hello all. Is it only I that see it as an ironic twist of fate that the judges names are "Smith" and "Clarke"?
More importantly... Can anyone explain to me what will happen if RMST ends up bankrupt? I fear the outcome is the same either way. Either they (1) sell them to pay the back debt owed or (2) they go bankrupt and the artifacts which were collateral are sold to pay the debt.....
(Please tell me I am incorrect!!) I will try to get to the exhibit in Phoenix A.S.A.P. and see what is said there.
Sadly. Colleen
 

Bill Willard

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Mar 24, 2001
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The assets of the company are very diverse. They include the footage from numerous expeditions that have significant value, a ship that was paid for by company dollars, merchadising contracts, licensing contracts, and so forth.

Shareholders would have to step in and take some kind of action to stop the expenditure madness. If bankruptcy is declared, then Geller would lose the right to sell them to whomever he chooses. The process would be overseen by a court.

That statement profoundly is adverse to Geller's intent to sell the artifacts to himself, thus he seeks an appellate decision. He then would be free to sell them to himself, at his price, rather than by a price determined by a court process to an undetermined party.

The Phoenix exhibit, according to one source, is similar to the Chicago exhibit, but the numbers weren't overwhelming. It may be a good time to go.

Bill
 

Mike Bull

Member
Dec 23, 2000
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Does anyone know if George Tulloch and co. are considering/are even able to make some sort of counter-claim against Gellar and take over RMS Titanic Inc again? Perhaps they could argue that it was with them that the original salvage rights were granted, and that they could continue the company 'as is', and uphold those original judegments, by not selling the artifacts/seeking to rip the ship open etc etc like Gellar has? Would that give them any ground?

Or does the law have the right to take the salvor in possession ruling away from RMS T.Inc, and invite someone else to take things over? It just seems to me that ever since Gellar did his hostile takeover move on Tulloch, he has sought to do the exact opposite of everything the court said in the first place.

Whatever happens, it's looking like those thousands of artifacts that are stuck in water tanks in France, not even looked at yet let alone preserved, are going to end up spread around the world-the biggest shame of it all.
 

Mark Taylor

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Mar 18, 2005
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"Does anyone know if George Tulloch and co. are considering/are even able to make some sort of counter-claim against Gellar and take over RMS Titanic Inc again? "

As I recall the settlement agreement between RMSTI restricts Tulloch from doing anything for a specified period of time. So he may not be able to do anything, but I need to check on this. But if it ends up in bankruptcy courts, then he could try to get the company back.
 

Bill Willard

Member
Mar 24, 2001
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The settlement agreement prohibited Tulloch from interfering in company business for period of 18 months, whichhas passed. Tulloch is vewry cautious, though, and he has good right to be. Geller is suit happy, and who knows who will be sued next.

The shareholders are not in a position to re-take control of the company at this time. The takeover, according to documents, occurred because Geller's group was slightly over 50%. When Harris was terminated, my prediction would have been for his share votes to change sides, thus giving the majority back to the Tulloch side. However, Geller gave 600,000 to Jessop for the treasure maps, and then gave Jessop a three year contract at $125K per year. Then later he gave Jessop another 1.1 million shares for the questionable Carpathia rights.

And finally, a shareholder meeting is where these issues come to a head. Geller refuses to have one. Our bylaws call for a shareholder meeting every November. We didn't have one in 99, 00, or this year. The big share people look to make millions if the artifacts are sold. Titanic artifacts will be in the hands of Geller's foundation.

Shareholders could bring on an action, but it would cost thousands and thousands. People invested to help preserve history, not sell it piecemeal.

And, I'll leave you with a point to ponder. I don't want to say too much more on board. Are you sure that there are artifacts in Semur?

Bill
 
May 8, 2001
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Thank you for spelling that out to me Bill. so, Tulloch is watching what is going on, and wants to possibly get back involved and in control??? Am I to understand that what we really want is for RMST to go bankrupt as the only chance to keep the artifacts together?
I intend to get to Phoenix very soon. I hope they don't pull it first, but as soon as I get a free day, I will be there. Hopefully before Christmas.
Thank you again.
Colleen
 

Bill Willard

Member
Mar 24, 2001
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Hello Colleen,

In my talks with George Tulloch, he has never indicated that he wants to return, nor that he would if asked. On the same thought line, he hasn't said no, either. He's been very non-committal because of the non-interference clause.

I know from my perspective of our conversations that Geller's abuse of the company and the artifacts is ripping through his soul. Tulloch took great pride in taking care of the artifacts. He also sees the company abuse, and in my opinion, he hurts because the company is down.

We really don't want Geller to bankrupt the company. There are too many intangibles at that point. Anything can happen in the US legal system. It depends on who has the best lawyer, not the best solution.

Our best option at this point is for the appellate court to refuse Geller the right to sell. Then we're back where we were in Judge Clarke's court. Hopefully, the SEC investigation will shed light on the takeover and other activities and protect the shareholders. At that time, an organized effort could approach Tulloch to return, and the artifacts would be in the hands of a company leader who would keep them together for public display, and protect the artifacts as a primary role.

I'm anxious to hear about your visit to the Phoenix exhibit.

Merry Christmas!

Bill
 

Kyrila Scully

Member
Apr 15, 2001
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South Florida
Bill, is there anything we can do to petition or sway the court to do the right thing? Will letters help? Shelley, do you have any suggestions? Mike F., you've been quiet. I just can't sit still on this if there's something we can do. I'm a child of the 60's after all...I cut my teeth on protest marches.

All the best,
Kyrila