Scotland Road

  • Thread starter Colin W. Montgomery
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Colin W. Montgomery

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Looking for some new information on Scotland Road. Any help is appreciated thanks.
 

Dave Gittins

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Apr 11, 2001
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I believe it was named after a major road in Liverpool that was a rather seedy place in those days.
 

Bob Godfrey

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Nov 22, 2002
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'Scottie Road' in Liverpool was a great place for a pub crawl in 1912 - it had 65! But apart from gang warfare it was famous as the hub of the immigrant communities (especially Italian), so it was a very appropriate name for a 3rd Class thoroughfare.
 

Noel F. Jones

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May 14, 2002
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"If my read of the deck plans is correct, it was also a thorougfare that 3rd Class had access to."

My reading of the GA shows that it was blocked off by the w/t bulkhead abaft the turbine engine room.

In the social dimension there is quite a lot in the forum on the actual municipal thoroughfare if you do a seach.

To correct some misimpression, Scotland Road was not notably a recreational magnet for visiting seafarers; for that it was too far uptown and had a reputation of being rather 'territorial' and 'partisan'. I seem to remember it as a front line between the Protestant and Catholic factions and the scene of some 'friction' on July 12th (Orangeman's Day).

A combination of post-WWII slum clearance and the approach roads to the new tunnels has obliterated much of its architecture and character.

Back in the 18th century it was the coaching route out of the city to the north, hence its name.

Noel
 

Bob Godfrey

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Nov 22, 2002
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Some of the plans included in books do not show all of the w/t doors through the E-deck bulkheads. 'Scotland Road' must have been open right through to the 3rd Class accommodation area at the stern, or the passengers quartered there could not have reached the stairways halfway along it which were the only means of access to their dining rooms on F deck. It was also the only means by which 3rd Class passengers at either end of the ship could get to the public spaces or facilities at the other end.

Jonathan: The pubs are now reduced in number, but still more than enough!
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Dec 6, 2000
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There were WTDs on E-deck port and starboard at bulkheads K, L, M [Noel, that is the one which you refer to] and N and on the port side only at bulkhead O. So 5 points at which 3rd Class access from the forward section to the main 3rd Class stairs near the stern could have been cut if any of those doors were closed after the collision.
 

Noel F. Jones

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May 14, 2002
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"There were WTDs on E-deck port and starboard at bulkheads K, L, M [Noel, that is the one which you refer to]...."

I thought I was referring to bulkhead L. Be that as it may:

Rest assured, there would be strictly no passenger access to the working alleyway. This would go against all shipboard protocols, health, safety, good order and discipline. In any case, as I interpret the GA/Profile there was no need for any such compromise on either the crew or the passenger side of the bulkhead.

I also perceive no need for a w/t door in the aforesaid bulkhead; the working alleyway has to end somewhere and even so I see a transversely-aspected crew companionway up to D deck which would double as an emergency escape.

Feel free to educate me otherwise.

Noel
 
Dec 6, 2000
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Hello Noel,

Perhaps I misunderstand the word "abaft". I understand it as behind. - The Turbine Engine Room was between bulkheads "L" and "M".

One thing we can be certain of is that the port-side passageway on E-deck was used by both Crew and 3rd Class passengers. Here I quote from the British Inquiry: E deck.- there is reference to Crew accommation and 3rd Class lavatories.
"Immediately aft of this was a passageway right across the ship communicating directly with the ladderways leading to the decks above and below .... From the after end of this cross passage main alleyways on each side of the ship ran right to the after end of the vessel. That on the port side was about 8.5 feet wide. It was the general communication passageway for the crew and third-class passengers and was known as the working passage." As noted by Bob: "In this passage at the centre line in the middle of the length of the ship direct access was obtained to the third-class dining rooms on the deck below by means of a ladderway 20 feet wide."

Deck plans confirm the above.
 

Noel F. Jones

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May 14, 2002
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Quite.

A more diligent scan of the GA's in the cold grey light of dawn reveals that there is indeed no way for Third Class to approach their comestibles without traversing the forward section of the working alleyway. It seems the maritime mores of later decades did not obtain in 1912 and the lower orders were indeed thrown to the lions by ship designers. We live and learn.

I do note however that the master-at-arms' accommodation seems strategically placed against the more gross eventualities....

Noel
 

Noel F. Jones

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May 14, 2002
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Lester,

Your above post pre-empted my remedial one.

The bulkhead I was referring to forms the after boundary of the turbine engine room. If 'O' is the aftermost then I arrive at 'L' on the Profile to designate this. Perhaps I've miscounted.

The point I was making (inter alia) was that there was no need for a w/t door in way of the potato store (to use a different point of reference). I hope that clarifies.

Noel
 
Mar 22, 2003
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The bulkhead that formed the aft side of the turbine engine room was M. And there were 9 WTDs listed in the BOT report on E deck. However, there apparently was a 10th WTD, not mentioned in the BOT report, located just aft of bulkhead L off the port side passage that led to a staircase on the fore side of bulkhead L and came out on the starboard side of the ship down on F deck. The location of the WTDs for E deck are marked in red in the attached diagram.

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Dec 6, 2000
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Hello Sam,

Thank you for the added information about bulkhead "L" and the 3rd WTD. I had forgotten about the Engineer's accesses.

As a point of interest with the WTDs on F-deck having key plates [hope that is the correct terminology?] immediately above on E-deck; did the same apply with regard to the WTDs on E-deck?
If so I am guessing "2" key plates in the 1st Class Pantry; "3" in or near the 1st/2nd Class Galley; "4" in or near the 2nd Class Dining Room [2 at the forward end and 2 at the after end]; with a final key plate in the passageway near D-80.

Regards,
Lester
 
Mar 22, 2003
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It is my understanding that all sliding WTDs could be closed at the door on the deck that they were located as well as from the deck above. The actual mechanism was a rack and pinion.
 
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Bruce Beveridge

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Samuel,

I think the reason that WTD for the engineers' passage did not show up on the BOT report is because it was for the engineer's and not passengers. Also, it was a hinged door with dogs on it, not a lateral sliding door.

Bruce
 
Mar 22, 2003
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Hi Bruce: That is also true for the two WTDs on bulkhead D (on either side of the drop down door) on the tank top that led into the reserve bunker in hold 3. They show up on the plans but the report did not list them. I also assume the the WTD that was added at bulkhead N on the Orlop deck was also of this hinged kind. By my count I have of a total of 35 WTDs on the Titanic. Are there others?
 
Dec 6, 2000
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So those 4 WTDs:-
the 1 for the Engineer's passageway;
the 2 in bulkhead "D" alongside the forward WDT to/from the Firemen's passageway; and
the 1 in bulkhead "N" leading to a Refrigerated Space; had to be closed by hand?
 
Mar 22, 2003
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All WTDs except those that were of the drop down variety had to be closed by hand. The others were either sliding WTDs that were close and opened by hand on a rack and pinion mechanism, or hinged doors that were shut tight by dog levers after being swung closed like you have on most naval warships. The drop down doors could be closed by releasing a clutch electrically from the bridge, by a float under the floor plates, or by a hand lever. To be opened, a handle needed to be applied and turned on a rack and pinion while the clutch must be disengaged. It was generally a two or three person operation. To stay open, the clutch must be allowed to engage.