Seagoing Authentic Titanic Replica with Escort Ship?


A

Aaron_2016

Guest
Another legal obstacle would be:

She could not be manned by a British crew because of modern laws regarding equal opportunities and I think a majority 'white British' crew might be considered discrimination against other applicants seeking a job on the liner. There is also the insurance to consider. Who would be willing to insure a ship that is following safety standards that are 106 years out of date? e.g. There would be no wheelchair access or disabled toilet facilities which would mean a number of passengers would feel discriminated against as well as the workers.

I think many people hope that nobody will rebuild the ship because it means she will no longer be a dream and her stark reality will be made public. She may have looked nice in several pictures, but her interior decor was by no means the very best because French and German ships were much more grand and luxurious when it came to interior design. However they never sank under terrible circumstances, so they are largely forgotten.

Sailing on a German liner in 1912.


germanship.png



There are also compensation claims to consider as well. The passengers may ask for their money back and the chances of them being bored or wishing to cancel the rest of their journey could be high. There were even complaints on the real Titanic.

Survivor Mrs Shelley submitted an affidavit to the US Inquiry regarding her complaints about 2nd class on the Titanic:

"....Taken to a small cabin many decks down in the ship, which was so small that it could only be called a cell. It was impossible to open a regulation steamer trunk in said cabin. It was impossible for a third person to enter said cabin unless both occupants first of all crawled into their bunks.......the cabin was entirely too small for two women, and that two men could not hardly fit in; that it was impossible for myself or the steward to enter the cabin and to wait upon the occupants unless both of them first climbed into their berths. The purser then told me that he would have to act at once, or the company would get into trouble." She was allocated a better room on the ship. "That this cabin, though large and roomy, was not furnished in the comfortable manner as the same accommodation procured on the Cunard and other lines; that it looked in a half-finished condition; that this room was just as cold as the cell from which we had just been removed, and on asking the steward to have the heat turned on, he answered that it was impossible, as the heating system for the second-class cabins refused to work. That of all the second-class cabins, only three - the three first cabins to be reached by the heat - had any heat at all, and that the heat was so intense there that the occupants had complained to the purser, who had ordered the heat shut off entirely; consequently the rooms were like ice houses all of the voyage."

The repair men on the replica would need to be trained to deal with 1912 appliances, wiring, and plumping. A giant workforce of tradesmen would also need to be trained to build all of her furnishings which would need to be custom made and boiler makers and engineers would need to build factories to create a replica of her engines. Not to mention spares, as she would need to be maintained regularly and come into dry dock for inspections and repairs using 1912 equipment and tools to complete the repairs.

If all of the above was made public then I think nobody would be willing to invest their money in the project without some guarantee that she could make a profit within her first year of service.


.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
May 3, 2005
2,259
176
133
Actually the real money makers were 1st class passengers not 3d class. A 1st class passenger (even 2nd class) paid much more for his cabin than 3rd class.
Mark Chirnside published a paper about it, would need to look for the link.
It seems the profit on steerage was only if filled with 1500 to 2000 persons ? There were only 709 on Titanic.
Of course I believe the total onboard was only about 50% of those available.

Evidently the makers of "Titanic" (1953) were not aware of this.:
When the leading character (Richard Ward Sturges-(Clifton Webb) tries to book passage at Cherbourg , he is told "Titanic has been sold out for months."
I don't think it would have made much difference in the plot of the movie if he had bought a First Class ticket.
Of course, just another error, The rave reviews seem to indicate the general public liked the movie, but there seems to be a difference of opinion on this website. LOL
 
Last edited:
Nov 14, 2005
729
277
133
It seems the profit on steerage was only if filled with 1500 to 2000 persons ? There were only 709 on Titanic.
Of course I believe the total onboard was only about 50% of those available.

Evidently the makers of "Titanic" (1953) were not aware of this.:
When the leading character (Richard Ward Sturges-(Clifton Webb) tries to book passage at Cherbourg , he is told "Titanic has been sold out for months."
I don't think it would have made much difference in the plot of the movie if he had bought a First Class ticket.
Of course, just another error, The rave reviews seem to indicate the general public liked the movie, but there seems to be a difference of opinion on this website. LOL
I liked the movie. It was entertaining. But just like Cameron's film Titanic was a back drop for a fictional story. Plus I always liked Barbra Stanwyck. If you watch her movies from the 30's and 40's she was quite the sharp tongued looker. "Sassy but Classy" as they used to say.
 
May 2, 2018
4
1
3
Hello, I made the original post and really appreciate the detailed and well thought out responses on here.

I really do very much doubt something like a precise replica would ever be attempted for numerous safety and financial reasons all included in this thread. If there was some eccentric billionaire out there though I think the task of actually constructing a fourth Olympic Liner would be entirely doable. There's currently 225,000 tonne cruise ships being launched so a 45,000 tonne ocean liner is in the scope of a midsize build. The real expense I imagine would be going for that authenticity, rediscovering riveting techniques, cast molding the engine blocks, all that guild wood carving, etc. If someone had enough money and determination though building an exact replica would not be overly difficult. Getting it onto the ocean with people onboard it would be entirely another matter though.

A lot of responses mentioned that people would be put off by a lack of amenities, cabin size, air conditioning, no hot tub etc. While I completely understand that reasoning I do feel it misses the spirit of a Titanic replica somewhat, if someone wanted to travel in the most luxurious ship possible with all the modern day perks I imagine something like the Queen Mary 2 would be their immediate go to, taking a voyage on her is absolutely something on my bucket list. This Titanic replica however would be marketed towards the adventurous, people with a deep interest in history and obviously primarily those with a deep interest in anything Titanic. Several people mentioned the concept of a floating museum and that is precisely what this would be. There's some amazing photos linked above of some German liner interiors. This whole theoretical venture would be geared for people who want to experience what life was really like onboard a liner of that era. Given how ingrained Titanic is in popular culture, the booming world population and the steady rise of the middle class I genuinely think there could be a profit made in an all out Titanic replica, it would be a completely unique experience.

It was also mentioned a couple of times either fitting out another ship with an Edwardian style interior or making the Titanic a static museum on land, I thought the Truman Show fake voyage was a great idea, it reminded me a ton of the Rick and Morty Titanic episode, minus the sinking simulation aspect. I guess the Chinese Titanic pretty much hits the static attraction nail right on the head although I wish the Titanic Quarter in Belfast had done it first right on the spot where the Olympic class were first built.

I've never been to the Titanic Museum in Missouri but if I ever find myself in that part of the world I'll be sure to look out for it. I was able to stay on the Queen Mary in Long Beach though and spent about four days exploring every bit of her I could access. While the ship has had many changes such as a restaurant now cutting into the promenade I think overall the operators have done a good job of maintaining such a huge ship in as much as possible a historical state. I very much wish I had had the chance to be on a ship like that while she was still on the ocean.

There's been some great comments to on the legal side of things. No port allowing her in is totally valid. Even if you could get Titanic Replica passengers to sign some sort of 'Assumption of risk, release and waiver of liability' ports wouldn't let a 1910's technology liner anywhere near their docks. If she crashed into the dock due to a lack of tugs, azipods, thrusters, etc the onus would probably be as much on the port authorities as it would the Replicas operators. A step around this might be to use the safety escort ship to ferry the passengers to a from the port, much in the way the original Titanic docked outside Cherbourg.

For workers health and safety this is another excellent point. This whole premise is going to the utter extreme of make the replica 100% authentic including a crew stoking the furnaces, etc. This might be an area where a bit of give is necessary such as giving the stokers re-breathers. I don't know if something along the lines of hazard pay would be enough to cover operating on this or would international law ban entirely working on what is effectively a floating death trap with only a nearby ship for support. Another comment mentioned crew diversity, looking at some figures of the original 908 crew 724 of them were from Southampton it would be pretty dubious to hire a predominately white English crew. There's the moral discriminatory aspect not to mention the practical difficulty in finding skilled workers within a single demographic willing to take the job with its unique circumstances. This is an area in my opinion where authenticity again would need to give way to practically and a spirit of inclusiveness.

A last point, I know this is getting long, was disabled passengers. Its a really amazing point and I'm glad Aaron 2016 brought it up. I'm not sure about this, this entire thread is legally way out on a limb as it is. This might again be a situation where authenticity and accuracy bend a little and a couple of cabins are replaced with disabled bathrooms and facilities. In terms of getting around the ship I imagine even in 1912 someone in a wheelchair would have been able to explore much of the ship owing to the continuous flow of rooms and the elevators from A to E deck. If they wished to visit the engine room or boilers though something like that might require assistance from some crew specifically trained to do so in a respectful way.

Anyway I've rambled enough. A warts and all Titanic replica seems like a stretch but really looking forward to the Honor and Glory game being finished, I've always wanted to be able to explore the Titanic and that's probably going to be the best way to do so for a long time yet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

Dave Gittins

Member
Apr 11, 2001
4,981
218
193
Nobody has mentioned the stationary Titanic replica which is well on the way in China. This seems to be mixture of replica and modern additions. For instance, it will have a ballroom. It's going to have a replica engine. It's not clear how it will all end. Some Chinese are asking why it's being built at all, given China's very limited connection with the ship. Chinese commentators don't seem to be aware of the eight Chinese passengers. I'll be interested to see how it turns out.
 
Nov 14, 2005
729
277
133
Hello, I made the original post and really appreciate the detailed and well thought out responses on here.

I really do very much doubt something like a precise replica would ever be attempted for numerous safety and financial reasons all included in this thread. If there was some eccentric billionaire out there though I think the task of actually constructing a fourth Olympic Liner would be entirely doable. There's currently 225,000 tonne cruise ships being launched so a 45,000 tonne ocean liner is in the scope of a midsize build. The real expense I imagine would be going for that authenticity, rediscovering riveting techniques, cast molding the engine blocks, all that guild wood carving, etc. If someone had enough money and determination though building an exact replica would not be overly difficult. Getting it onto the ocean with people onboard it would be entirely another matter though.

A lot of responses mentioned that people would be put off by a lack of amenities, cabin size, air conditioning, no hot tub etc. While I completely understand that reasoning I do feel it misses the spirit of a Titanic replica somewhat, if someone wanted to travel in the most luxurious ship possible with all the modern day perks I imagine something like the Queen Mary 2 would be their immediate go to, taking a voyage on her is absolutely something on my bucket list. This Titanic replica however would be marketed towards the adventurous, people with a deep interest in history and obviously primarily those with a deep interest in anything Titanic. Several people mentioned the concept of a floating museum and that is precisely what this would be. There's some amazing photos linked above of some German liner interiors. This whole theoretical venture would be geared for people who want to experience what life was really like onboard a liner of that era. Given how ingrained Titanic is in popular culture, the booming world population and the steady rise of the middle class I genuinely think there could be a profit made in an all out Titanic replica, it would be a completely unique experience.

It was also mentioned a couple of times either fitting out another ship with an Edwardian style interior or making the Titanic a static museum on land, I thought the Truman Show fake voyage was a great idea, it reminded me a ton of the Rick and Morty Titanic episode, minus the sinking simulation aspect. I guess the Chinese Titanic pretty much hits the static attraction nail right on the head although I wish the Titanic Quarter in Belfast had done it first right on the spot where the Olympic class were first built.

I've never been to the Titanic Museum in Missouri but if I ever find myself in that part of the world I'll be sure to look out for it. I was able to stay on the Queen Mary in Long Beach though and spent about four days exploring every bit of her I could access. While the ship has had many changes such as a restaurant now cutting into the promenade I think overall the operators have done a good job of maintaining such a huge ship in as much as possible a historical state. I very much wish I had had the chance to be on a ship like that while she was still on the ocean.

There's been some great comments to on the legal side of things. No port allowing her in is totally valid. Even if you could get Titanic Replica passengers to sign some sort of 'Assumption of risk, release and waiver of liability' ports wouldn't let a 1910's technology liner anywhere near their docks. If she crashed into the dock due to a lack of tugs, azipods, thrusters, etc the onus would probably be as much on the port authorities as it would the Replicas operators. A step around this might be to use the safety escort ship to ferry the passengers to a from the port, much in the way the original Titanic docked outside Cherbourg.

For workers health and safety this is another excellent point. This whole premise is going to the utter extreme of make the replica 100% authentic including a crew stoking the furnaces, etc. This might be an area where a bit of give is necessary such as giving the stokers re-breathers. I don't know if something along the lines of hazard pay would be enough to cover operating on this or would international law ban entirely working on what is effectively a floating death trap with only a nearby ship for support. Another comment mentioned crew diversity, looking at some figures of the original 908 crew 724 of them were from Southampton it would be pretty dubious to hire a predominately white English crew. There's the moral discriminatory aspect not to mention the practical difficulty in finding skilled workers within a single demographic willing to take the job with its unique circumstances. This is an area in my opinion where authenticity again would need to give way to practically and a spirit of inclusiveness.

A last point, I know this is getting long, was disabled passengers. Its a really amazing point and I'm glad Aaron 2016 brought it up. I'm not sure about this, this entire thread is legally way out on a limb as it is. This might again be a situation where authenticity and accuracy bend a little and a couple of cabins are replaced with disabled bathrooms and facilities. In terms of getting around the ship I imagine even in 1912 someone in a wheelchair would have been able to explore much of the ship owing to the continuous flow of rooms and the elevators from A to E deck. If they wished to visit the engine room or boilers though something like that might require assistance from some crew specifically trained to do so in a respectful way.

Anyway I've rambled enough. A warts and all Titanic replica seems like a stretch but really looking forward to the Honor and Glory game being finished, I've always wanted to be able to explore the Titanic and that's probably going to be the best way to do so for a long time yet.
Its always fun to ponder these things. This was an interesting and informative thread...Thanks.
 

Rancor

Member
Jun 23, 2017
263
155
53
After a bit of thought I reckon a sea-going replica could be possible, but perhaps not 100% authentic due to the many reasons others have mentioned regarding passenger comfort and modern safety regulations.

Some careful design and planning could be undertaken to give potential passengers a pretty close experience though. As stated above, not many would want to spend the entire time in a 3rd class cabin with a bunch of other people they didn't know, but what if as part of a 3 or 4 day cruise you spent a day in each class. The fine dining experience of 1st class with a steward for your every need on your first day, then on day two you get to see what it was like in third class for a single night, complete with the Irish dancing session as per the movie (which is what most people will want to relate to anyway). Modern amenities such as additional toilets and showers would perhaps have to be added here and there, but if kept to the style of the rest of the fittings it wouldn't detract from the experience much, most people wouldn't know that they weren't on the original vessel.

In terms of not enough things to do for a modern audience, I think this could be marketed as a plus. Call it a 'digital detox' - no phones or modern electronics allowed. Experience life like it was in the 1900s with less distractions and more time for yourself and your family. Have a good stock of period correct newspapers and books for people to read, along with deck games, the swimming pool, squash court, board games or just sitting on deck watching the world go by. An important part of the experience would also be a good selection of period clothing for people to wear, appropriate for whatever class they are in for the day. A surprising amount of people love playing dressups.

As for modern safety features, I don't have any experience in this area, but I think again with some careful design you could integrate a proper fire detection system, Public Address, radar and lifejackets without it being obvious. I'm sure it would be possible to build a smoke detection system that could be hidden in a chandelier, with additional fire hoses and extinguishers hidden in cupboards in the corridors. Life jackets and emergency equipment could be modern just discreetly hidden away unless required. Radar could be installed in a fake crowsnest on the foremast. Not sure about lifeboats, perhaps they could be styled to look more correct to the era. Radio would be a requirement on the bridge but could be kept in the wheelhouse with the radar display, GPS and other modern equipment as necessary (even these could be made to look Edwardian to the casual observer) whilst the navigating bridge would be 100% original.

Technical requirements, I think triple expansion engines and the turbine would be possible. A lot of people would show interest in this area. As for hand firing boilers I originally thought this might be a step too far, that it wouldn't be possible to have anyone work in these conditions. But there are plenty of small steamships where people volunteer to shovel coal. Modern PPE in the form of dust-masks and heat/fire protection would be a must though.

Could still have steam driven auxiliaries perhaps with electric backup for the super important stuff. Steam driven electrical generation could also work, but you'd probably have to generate in AC. Also replace the emergency dynamos with diesel generators.

Air-conditioning would have to be fitted in somewhere. Perhaps decommission some of the third class cabins and put the plant in there.

All this said, while technically and perhaps even economically possible, I personally do not think a real life replica Titanic should be made. In my opinion it is best to have the research, pictures and digital recreations that still allow us to build an experience of the original vessel and try and understand the tragedy that everyone on her went though.

Maybe you could build a replica and name her Olympic, but you'd probably find most people would have no idea what ship you are talking about.
 
May 3, 2005
2,259
176
133
It seems the profit on steerage was only if filled with 1500 to 2000 persons ? There were only 709 on Titanic.
Of course I believe the total onboard was only about 50% of those available.

Evidently the makers of "Titanic" (1953) were not aware of this.:
When the leading character (Richard Ward Sturges-(Clifton Webb) tries to book passage at Cherbourg , he is told "Titanic has been sold out for months."
I don't think it would have made much difference in the plot of the movie if he had bought a First Class ticket.
Of course, just another error, The rave reviews seem to indicate the general public liked the movie, but there seems to be a difference of opinion on this website. LOL
This is all intended as pure fiction.
Pure supposition at best.......or worst. LOL.
In the 1953 "Titanic" Sturges" goes up from Third Class/Steerage to First Class to join his wife, son and daughter in the Dining Salon .
In real life, would this be possible ?
If so , would "Sturges" have to purchase a First Class Ticket ?
In the movie he seems to join them in their First Class Cabin but still by way of Third Class/Steerage.
Would some Official of the ship have noticed that "Richard Ward Sturges" was not on the First Clsss Passenger List and taken action ?
Of course, some Titanic fanatics consider this movie as sort of a "soap opera" and it does lack a bit on historical accuracy.

This post should have been made in the "Titanic Movies" section ?
 
Last edited:

Harland Duzen

Member
Jan 14, 2017
1,544
587
123
New idea! Very simple, but why not build the ship's exterior and make the interior of the superstructure deck (Boat Deck - C Deck). While staying inside might not be feasible to do nowadays, People would probably still love to walk the Boat Deck and Fore-Castle Deck and this would still allow them to see some interiors like the gymnasium, bridge, marconi room etc.

This is all intended as pure fiction.
Pure supposition at best.......or worst. LOL.
In the 1953 "Titanic" Sturges" goes up from Third Class/Steerage to First Class to join his wife, son and daughter in the Dining Salon .
In real life, would this be possible ?
No. :D
 
A

Aaron_2016

Guest
Hello, I made the original post and really appreciate the detailed and well thought out responses on here.

I really do very much doubt something like a precise replica would ever be attempted for numerous safety and financial reasons all included in this thread. If there was some eccentric billionaire out there though I think the task of actually constructing a fourth Olympic Liner would be entirely doable. There's currently 225,000 tonne cruise ships being launched so a 45,000 tonne ocean liner is in the scope of a midsize build. The real expense I imagine would be going for that authenticity, rediscovering riveting techniques, cast molding the engine blocks, all that guild wood carving, etc. If someone had enough money and determination though building an exact replica would not be overly difficult. Getting it onto the ocean with people onboard it would be entirely another matter though..

They could create a ship within a ship! Like this. With walkways and tour guides escorting groups to the center piece attraction in the middle. "This is the Captain speaking. Dinner will be served aboard the Titanic at 7pm."



Titanicreplica.png



.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
May 3, 2005
2,259
176
133
I liked the movie. It was entertaining. But just like Cameron's film Titanic was a back drop for a fictional story. Plus I always liked Barbra Stanwyck. If you watch her movies from the 30's and 40's she was quite the sharp tongued looker. "Sassy but Classy" as they used to say.
The 1953 "Titanic" was my first exposure to the Titanic story. I have DVD's of it, ANTR and the 1997 version.
I have also some of the TV series.
My favorline in the 1953 movie is when Annette complains to Juia that they have a bad table in the Dining Salon .
Julia's reply is "Be brave, Annete, these tragedies happen in life."
 

Scott Mills

Member
Jul 10, 2008
616
59
98
42
Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
Actually the real money makers were 1st class passengers not 3d class. A 1st class passenger (even 2nd class) paid much more for his cabin than 3rd class.
Mark Chirnside published a paper about it, would need to look for the link.
The money was really in immigrant trade. Volume, volume, volume. That's why you saw radical changes in North Atlantic passenger shipping in 1918, 1921, and 1924 as the United States progressively placed more and more controls on the number of people who could enter the country. A large number of ships had to be pulled from their routes altogether, there was a marked increase in seasonal "cruising" (a conscious effort was made to sell "cruise" holidays for the first time), and ships were refit en masse. Eventually "third class" or "steerage" disappeared altogether and became "tourist class."

I mean, even the case of the Olympic Class liners--the fourth funnel was added because of the impression White Star and Harland & Wolf felt a fourth funnel would make on immigrant travelers. This is an important distinction. As "luxurious" as the Olympic Class liners were supposed to be, much of her design was dedicated to making the ships more attractive to immigrants rather than merely appealing to the wealthy.

There are a number of great books on the general history of the transatlantic passenger trade I would recommend if you want to learn more about the actual economics of ocean liners. A couple approachable ones are:

The Only Way to Cross by John Maxtone-Graham; AND
Transatlantic: Samuel Cunard, Isambard Brunel, and the Great Atlantic Steamships by Stephen Fox.

The only part that is sad to me is there are not really any books out there dealing with the other big routes like the transpacific and the England-South Africa-Australia routes.
 

Scott Mills

Member
Jul 10, 2008
616
59
98
42
Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
In terms of not enough things to do for a modern audience, I think this could be marketed as a plus. Call it a 'digital detox' - no phones or modern electronics allowed. Experience life like it was in the 1900s with less distractions and more time for yourself and your family. Have a good stock of period correct newspapers and books for people to read, along with deck games, the swimming pool, squash court, board games or just sitting on deck watching the world go by. An important part of the experience would also be a good selection of period clothing for people to wear, appropriate for whatever class they are in for the day. A surprising amount of people love playing dressups.
A couple thoughts here, I wonder how successful you could really be having a replica of the Titanic then trying to sell it as a "digital detox" vacation. Particularly given that I am almost positive 99.9% of the appeal of such a ship is going to be it is a replica of Titanic; meaning, I think, people are really going to want to bring their cameras and phones (to use as cameras) to record their experience and the ship.

The other thing that suddenly occurred to me is that with a "true" replica, you have to deal with the fact that Titanic's electrical system was not designed in a way that would make powering any modern electronics--computers, phones, cameras, etc.--that people might bring on board an easy task.

As for modern safety features, I don't have any experience in this area, but I think again with some careful design you could integrate a proper fire detection system, Public Address, radar and lifejackets without it being obvious. I'm sure it would be possible to build a smoke detection system that could be hidden in a chandelier, with additional fire hoses and extinguishers hidden in cupboards in the corridors. Life jackets and emergency equipment could be modern just discreetly hidden away unless required. Radar could be installed in a fake crowsnest on the foremast. Not sure about lifeboats, perhaps they could be styled to look more correct to the era. Radio would be a requirement on the bridge but could be kept in the wheelhouse with the radar display, GPS and other modern equipment as necessary (even these could be made to look Edwardian to the casual observer) whilst the navigating bridge would be 100% original.
I imagine you pretty much have to assume that something along the Titanic II plans would need to be used. In addition to all of the things you mentioned, you would need to replace nearly all of the wooden fittings, carpeting, drapes, etc., with something non-flammable. I am guessing wood and coal burning fireplaces, heaters, and kitchen appliances would have to go too--plus most professional chefs aren't going to want to cook with circa 1912 kitchen appliances in any case!

Technical requirements, I think triple expansion engines and the turbine would be possible. A lot of people would show interest in this area. As for hand firing boilers I originally thought this might be a step too far, that it wouldn't be possible to have anyone work in these conditions. But there are plenty of small steamships where people volunteer to shovel coal. Modern PPE in the form of dust-masks and heat/fire protection would be a must though.
Here is the thing about this... we are not talking about a paddle steamer on the Ohio river here. We are talking about a 50k ton ship whose steam plant required 176 stokers/firemen, 73 coal trimmers, and 33 greasers to operate. This operation was not for an hour cruise up the river either, it was 24 hours a day. I am wondering where someone might find all those volunteers! :D

In addition a lot of those historic ships with the volunteers manage to get certain safety regulations waived in virtue of the historic value of keeping those vessels in as near original condition as possible. Since a Titanic replica is exactly that--a replica--I think it would be much more difficult to receive waivers based on the age and historical value of the ship itself.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
 

Rancor

Member
Jun 23, 2017
263
155
53
A couple thoughts here, I wonder how successful you could really be having a replica of the Titanic then trying to sell it as a "digital detox" vacation. Particularly given that I am almost positive 99.9% of the appeal of such a ship is going to be it is a replica of Titanic; meaning, I think, people are really going to want to bring their cameras and phones (to use as cameras) to record their experience and the ship.

The other thing that suddenly occurred to me is that with a "true" replica, you have to deal with the fact that Titanic's electrical system was not designed in a way that would make powering any modern electronics--computers, phones, cameras, etc.--that people might bring on board an easy task.



I imagine you pretty much have to assume that something along the Titanic II plans would need to be used. In addition to all of the things you mentioned, you would need to replace nearly all of the wooden fittings, carpeting, drapes, etc., with something non-flammable. I am guessing wood and coal burning fireplaces, heaters, and kitchen appliances would have to go too--plus most professional chefs aren't going to want to cook with circa 1912 kitchen appliances in any case!



Here is the thing about this... we are not talking about a paddle steamer on the Ohio river here. We are talking about a 50k ton ship whose steam plant required 176 stokers/firemen, 73 coal trimmers, and 33 greasers to operate. This operation was not for an hour cruise up the river either, it was 24 hours a day. I am wondering where someone might find all those volunteers! :D

In addition a lot of those historic ships with the volunteers manage to get certain safety regulations waived in virtue of the historic value of keeping those vessels in as near original condition as possible. Since a Titanic replica is exactly that--a replica--I think it would be much more difficult to receive waivers based on the age and historical value of the ship itself.
Hey Scott, thanks for taking an interest in my half-brained ideas!

You are correct about the photos I reckon, one possible way to solve that without everyone whipping smartphones out all over the place and ruining the illusion would be to give everyone a period correct camera (or something that at least looks the part) with film for the duration of the cruise/voyage. Only a limited number of photos so you better take good ones.

There would have to be compromises on some fittings and furnishings to meet modern day code, but as long as it looked the part most people won't notice. My view here is not quite the 100% replica as Michael is envisioning, but something that looks and feels like the orignal with modern upgrades as neccessary just tactfully hidden away. Another example is the wiring. No point using period wiring when no passenger will see it and it will only present a possible hazard. You could even install power outlets in cabins if they were nice fittings that looked period correct.

I think you would struggle to find enough volunteer fireman. You would certainly have to have a paid crew. The point I was making was people still handfire coal boilers, even if not on the scale we are talking about. I'm not sure if it would be feasible to have a full compliment of stockers swinging shovels the entire voyage for the amusment of the small number of passengers who take an interest.


I can't comment on how the lifeboat and safety aspect would have to be incorporated as I'm not across the regulations.

Thanks for reading.
 

Scott Mills

Member
Jul 10, 2008
616
59
98
42
Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
I can't comment on how the lifeboat and safety aspect would have to be incorporated as I'm not across the regulations.

Thanks for reading.
I can comment on this briefly. Certainly there are requirements for the outfitting of the lifeboats themselves--for example you'd have to have enough of them and they'd have to be modern lifeboats. In addition SOLAS currently requires that lifeboats be placed no more than 90 feet from the deck to the water, which is why so many modern "cruise liners" and indeed the infamous "Titanic II" have lifeboat decks halfway down the hull; however, if the ship is designed as an ocean liner with the intention of moving passengers from point A to point B across the open ocean exceptions to SOLAS can be approved.

For example, Queen Mary 2 has just such an exception based on the fact that 50% of its time is dedicated to the North Atlantic "passenger route" (more like the nostalgic open sea North Atlantic 'cruise' route). This exception is based on the height of waves the ship could potentially encounter in the open ocean, and that these waves could either do serious damage to low-hung lifeboats, or seriously impeded any necessary evacuation from the 90 foot deck limit in heavy seas.

So, you could potentially get an exception for your replica if it is designed as an ocean liner to run this route. If you did though, you would need to change the appearance and character of the Olympic class liner's original boat deck significantly. This is most likely why such an exception was not sought for Titanic II, because it was figured with the addition of the lifeboat safety deck below the original boat deck, one could maintain the aesthetics--and even keep the old davits and boat arrangement--which was present on Titanic's boat deck.
 

Rancor

Member
Jun 23, 2017
263
155
53
I can comment on this briefly. Certainly there are requirements for the outfitting of the lifeboats themselves--for example you'd have to have enough of them and they'd have to be modern lifeboats. In addition SOLAS currently requires that lifeboats be placed no more than 90 feet from the deck to the water, which is why so many modern "cruise liners" and indeed the infamous "Titanic II" have lifeboat decks halfway down the hull; however, if the ship is designed as an ocean liner with the intention of moving passengers from point A to point B across the open ocean exceptions to SOLAS can be approved.

For example, Queen Mary 2 has just such an exception based on the fact that 50% of its time is dedicated to the North Atlantic "passenger route" (more like the nostalgic open sea North Atlantic 'cruise' route). This exception is based on the height of waves the ship could potentially encounter in the open ocean, and that these waves could either do serious damage to low-hung lifeboats, or seriously impeded any necessary evacuation from the 90 foot deck limit in heavy seas.

So, you could potentially get an exception for your replica if it is designed as an ocean liner to run this route. If you did though, you would need to change the appearance and character of the Olympic class liner's original boat deck significantly. This is most likely why such an exception was not sought for Titanic II, because it was figured with the addition of the lifeboat safety deck below the original boat deck, one could maintain the aesthetics--and even keep the old davits and boat arrangement--which was present on Titanic's boat deck.
This is interesting. Wikipedia tells me that Titanic had a height from keel to top of bridge of 104 feet. Draught of 34 feet. So this is a height from waterline to bridge (which was about the same height as the lifeboats) of 70 feet. So technically height of the lifeboats would be acceptable according to the modern regulations?
 

Scott Mills

Member
Jul 10, 2008
616
59
98
42
Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
This is interesting. Wikipedia tells me that Titanic had a height from keel to top of bridge of 104 feet. Draught of 34 feet. So this is a height from waterline to bridge (which was about the same height as the lifeboats) of 70 feet. So technically height of the lifeboats would be acceptable according to the modern regulations?
I am sorry, I misspoke the actual distance required by SOLAS between a davitted lifeboat and the waterline of the vessel is 15 meters (so 49 feet!) I don't know why that 90 feet number jumped into my head as I know QM2 received her SOLAS exception and houses her lifeboats 82 (or is it 85?) from her waterline.

So, in other words, no. Titanic's lifeboat height would not be allowed under SOLAS without a granted exception.

Interesting fact though, besides a lot of things we've discussed here the Olympic class vessels exceed SOLAS requirements when it comes to the arrangement of their bulkheads and their ability to survive (stay afloat) in the event of breaches to their hulls.

This means, relative to Titanic, almost every cruise ship afloat would sink much more quickly than Titanic should they suffer the type of flooding Titanic experienced!
 

SirPhillip

Member
May 20, 2018
2
0
1
For me, it´s a dream to travel in a titanic replica.

100% equal is imposible, but something as similar as posible.

Any hope about Palmer´s Titanic II?
 

Scott Mills

Member
Jul 10, 2008
616
59
98
42
Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
I feel like someday something like this will happen, but I am pretty sure Palmer's Titanic II is a pipe dream on his part. Development was suspended a number of years ago, and there have been no further updates. In the software industry Palmer's Titanic II would be referred to as "vaporware."
 

Similar threads