Mike Poirier
Member
I was wondering which children were separated from their families during the sinking and put into different lifeboats. So far there was Betram Dean, Frank Aks, Ruth Blanchard.
Separate boats for the Beckers
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Arthur Merchant
Member
Another instance of this happening was with Syrian immigrants Mrs. Catherine Peter and her two children. While Mrs. Peter carried toddler Anna in her arms, she told her four year old son Michael to hold on to her dress as they went up to the deck with other Syrian passengers.
Apparantly the boy was seperated on the trek up the grand staircase, as according to Gellar's book, Mrs. Peter and company turned toward the starboard deck while Michael emerged on the port side, all alone. Some unknown Samaritan somehow got the boy to Boat D while his mother and sister were in Boat C.
Arthur
Apparantly the boy was seperated on the trek up the grand staircase, as according to Gellar's book, Mrs. Peter and company turned toward the starboard deck while Michael emerged on the port side, all alone. Some unknown Samaritan somehow got the boy to Boat D while his mother and sister were in Boat C.
Arthur
Phillip Gowan
RIP
Assed Alexander Thomas was separated for a time from his mother, Thelma.
Craig Stringer
Member
Dear Michael,
There were also the Navratils, Trevor Allison and Arthur Olsen, who were separated from their parents on the ship.
Eva Hart became separated from her mother after Lowe made his transfers from lifeboat no. 14.
In the loosest sense, Alden Caldwell was separated from his parents by being placed at the opposite end to them in lifeboat 13.
I am not so sure that Bertram Dean was separated from his mother. Florence Thorneycroft mentioned helping to look after both children while sitting near them in a lifeboat.
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Craig
There were also the Navratils, Trevor Allison and Arthur Olsen, who were separated from their parents on the ship.
Eva Hart became separated from her mother after Lowe made his transfers from lifeboat no. 14.
In the loosest sense, Alden Caldwell was separated from his parents by being placed at the opposite end to them in lifeboat 13.
I am not so sure that Bertram Dean was separated from his mother. Florence Thorneycroft mentioned helping to look after both children while sitting near them in a lifeboat.
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Craig
Mike Poirier
Member
Craig:
The question was more for the separations that took place during the sinking, not after. Michel Navratil simply wasn't allowed into the boat. I am talking more about sparations in the confusion, not forced separations. There is an account ( whether or not it was true ) where Dean said he became separated from his mother and was put in a separate boat.
Phillip: I clearly forgot abot the Thomas boy and Edwina Troutt caring for him in the lifeboat.
The question was more for the separations that took place during the sinking, not after. Michel Navratil simply wasn't allowed into the boat. I am talking more about sparations in the confusion, not forced separations. There is an account ( whether or not it was true ) where Dean said he became separated from his mother and was put in a separate boat.
Phillip: I clearly forgot abot the Thomas boy and Edwina Troutt caring for him in the lifeboat.
Peter Engberg-Klarström
Member
Dear everybody: In Mrs Thorneycroft's interview, she clearly states that the Deans were with her in the 'tenth' boat. This was a 1912 interview. Other people would later also claim they were separated at the boats: the Beanes (even though they stated in earlier interviews they left in a boat together), the McCoys, where the brother allegedly was picked up by his sisters (very likely they simply entered a starboard boat together) and so on...the separation theme was apparently rather interesting.
Best regards,
Peter
Best regards,
Peter
Mike Poirier
Member
In Geller's book, she clearly states from Ettie Dean's point of view that She and Millvina were in one boat, but Betram had wandered away and the boat was lowered without him. So Florence probably was in the boat with Millvina and Ettie, but Bertam was in a separate boat. I'll ask Mike Findlay if this is correct- or hopefully he'll see this message.
Mike
Mike
Phillip Gowan
RIP
Millvina also claims that Bertram was separated from the family, an allegation passed down from her mother. I'd say that would hold a little weight.
Peter Engberg-Klarström
Member
Dear Philip and Michael P; from Mrs Thorneycroft's 1912 account, it is quite clear that all three surviving Deans were with her in the lifeboat; but I wasn't there and I can't say that this is the truth or not. It is interesting though, that people change stories with the years. On the Lusitania there was a girl, Alice Lines, who was a nurse to first class passenger Major and Mrs Pearl's children. She stated in the enquiry in Britain that she entered a starboard lifeboat with the two surviving children. Later in life she would say she had to swim for it. The separation theme is one interesting feature in the Titanic story, the men who stated they had to swim for it another....
Best regards,
Peter
Best regards,
Peter
Mike Poirier
Member
Re Alice Lines. Both stories are true. She did somewhat enter the lifeboat as it was lowering, but failed to get truly get in and fell into the water and when the lifeboat cast off, they picked up Alice. ( this is just the brief version )
Re Florence Thorneycroft. I would say with the amount of children in the boat, she could have confused Bertram with another child. And since Ettie was somewhat of a reluctant survivor, I doubt she would have exaggerated Bertram not being in the boat.
Re Florence Thorneycroft. I would say with the amount of children in the boat, she could have confused Bertram with another child. And since Ettie was somewhat of a reluctant survivor, I doubt she would have exaggerated Bertram not being in the boat.
Peter Engberg-Klarström
Member
Question re the Deans; where and when did Mrs Dean state she became separated from her son?
Best regards,
Peter
Best regards,
Peter
Mike Poirier
Member
I believe what she said was that they were waiting to board the boat and they noticed that Bertram had wandered off in the confusion. Ettie and Millvina boarded the boat and Bert Sr. promised to look for him. So apparently he or some other good samaritan found him and placed him in either C or D.
Michael Findlay
Member
Hi Mike,
Sorry to be so late in responding to the message board. I don't visit the site on a daily basis so I apologize if I'm responding to a question that appears to have been answered already.
Regarding Bertram Dean, I agree with Peter - largely due to Mrs. Thorneycroft's article. I believe the Dean trio were saved together - in the same lifeboat. This is conjecture as to what boat the Deans escaped in. I believe they were in collapsible C but other historians suggest #10 based on Mrs. Thorneycroft's description of the "tenth" boat. Bertram's mother spoke about the disaster many years afterward and I'm afraid her memory was failing at the time. I believe this is where the idea formulated in Mrs. Burden's mind about her son becoming separated from her. I rarely trust survivor accounts in later years because of the span of time, and because memories have also become clouded by countless books, movies and other factors.
Regarding Assed Thomas, there is speculation as to whether or not Edwina Troutt really held him during the night. There is no concrete evidence to confirm this but it still remains a possibility.
Looking forward to a New England get-together soon!
Best,
Mike
Sorry to be so late in responding to the message board. I don't visit the site on a daily basis so I apologize if I'm responding to a question that appears to have been answered already.
Regarding Bertram Dean, I agree with Peter - largely due to Mrs. Thorneycroft's article. I believe the Dean trio were saved together - in the same lifeboat. This is conjecture as to what boat the Deans escaped in. I believe they were in collapsible C but other historians suggest #10 based on Mrs. Thorneycroft's description of the "tenth" boat. Bertram's mother spoke about the disaster many years afterward and I'm afraid her memory was failing at the time. I believe this is where the idea formulated in Mrs. Burden's mind about her son becoming separated from her. I rarely trust survivor accounts in later years because of the span of time, and because memories have also become clouded by countless books, movies and other factors.
Regarding Assed Thomas, there is speculation as to whether or not Edwina Troutt really held him during the night. There is no concrete evidence to confirm this but it still remains a possibility.
Looking forward to a New England get-together soon!
Best,
Mike
Nathan Heddle
Guest
I think Ruth Becker was one separated from her mother as well. There was not enough room for her with her mother and brother and sister, so the poor girl was left alone on board to get in another boat. It must have been terryifing for a 12 year old.
Joseph Kendrick
Guest
Ruth was standing on the boat deck with her mother and siblings when her siblings were placed into a boat. Thinking that Ruth had also gotten in Mrs. Becker entered, when Mrs. Becker realised Ruth was on deck she yelled up to her "Hurry Ruth get into the next lifeboat. Upon hearing her mother Ruth simply walked up to the sailor loading lifeboat 13 and said "May I get into this boat" the sailor replied yes you may and Ruth was helped in. Ruth's mother thought Ruth had perised untill she was reunited with her aboard the Carpathia
Joe
Joe
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