Ship's name on the wreck [was: I just noticed this...]

[J Mathews]

Hello, Someone asked if I remembered where I say the 401 stamp on the pictures. I don't remember off hand but I will look.

Like he said many, the vast majority, of these fixtures were White Star Standard issue. It would not surprise me to learn that the Britannic had fixtures from one or BOTH of her sisters. After all a 20 x 20 x 10 veneer wood wall was the same wall on all three vessels. I am in no way saying that ALL the fixtures in the London hotel had 401 stamped on them. In fact they don't, the majority have 400 on them. I did see a picture of a panel or two that has 401 stamped on it.

As I outlined before, some could had said, "F-it, get THAT panel and get on with it." or perhaps a standard panel was in the wrong pile but since it was the same the contractors and carpenters didn't really care.

As for the guy showing up for work, well remember conspiracies only work if there are as few as possible involved. Thousands and thousands of works are going to talk. But if they're paid a little money or told the ships were moved or even informed of the swap and fed a BS but valid enough reason no one is going to care. They will just keep-on trucking.

Yes the ship calling itself Titanic did sink on April 14th 1912. Yes over 1500 people lost their lives due to the regulations of the day being woefully inadequate for HUGE passenger ships. Sure the rivets may have had too much slag in them and sure the drafters, naval engineers and metallurgists of the time felt the ship was strong enough (even nigh unsinkable) but ALL were proven wrong.

My point was to simply point at the Starboard wing bridge of the ship sitting on the bottom of the ocean, the one with the unevenly spaced windows?, and then say, "Umm where is Titanic's wing bridge and why is that ship's flush? Say....the Olympic's was flush...hrmm."

 

[David G. Brown]

I can assure you that nobody mixes things intended for one ship with fittings destined for another. The result would be shipbuilding chaos. The numbers are intended to make sure that when a man swings a hammer there is a nail in the board in the ship to hit. The same procedure is followed even by modern boat companies producing fishing craft 1/3rd the size of a lifeboat in Titanic. Good ideas are simply good ideas and that's why they stick around. But, yard hull numbers are not the official number of the ship.

There is one thing about the switch theory -- the ship's official number. This number is unique to each ship and is government issued. All of the paperwork connected with that ship carries the official number just to prevent the sort of nonsense claimed by the switch theory. Official numbers must be "carved into the main beam" so as to be difficult to alter or remove. From what I have found, Titanic's registration number was 131428. The number assigned to Olympic was 131346. How would it be possible to alter Olympic's to Titanic's and vice-versa. Re-chiseling the numbers would be instantly revealed and replacing two main structural beams a herculean task. To quote Second Officer Lightoller, "Not damned likely."

-- David G. Brown

 

[J Mathews]

So ... in order to prove or disprove the switch theory, all we need is a good close up detailed shot of Titanic's main beam number. I have no idea if this number still survives or was destroyed in the sinking. Since either ship is no longer around this may just be an endless debate.

 

[Rob Lawes]

As for the guy showing up for work, well remember conspiracies only work if there are as few as possible involved. Thousands and thousands of works are going to talk. But if they're paid a little money or told the ships were moved or even informed of the swap and fed a BS but valid enough reason no one is going to care. They will just keep-on trucking.

There's no way on this green earth a secret like that would last 5 minutes. There's no way a company would pay thousands of dockers to keep quiet. Dockyards and the population around them, couldn't keep a secret like that if they were threatened at gun point. I know as I've worked in and around military dockyards for over 20 years. If a military dockyard can't keep things secret then what chance has a civilian yard got in peace time? And what about all those retired workers or workers who were laid off with an axe to grind. Not one of those told their stories to the papers? There wasn't a single person making this claim or telling the switch story until Robin Gardiner published his book in the mid-90's. When you think of all the other myths and legends surrounding the ship, there's no way a story this unprecedented would have gone under the radar for a century.

 

[Ioannis Georgiou]

My point was to simply point at the Starboard wing bridge of the ship sitting on the bottom of the ocean, the one with the unevenly spaced windows?, and then say, "Umm where is Titanic's wing bridge and why is that ship's flush? Say....the Olympic's was flush...hrmm."

Actually the wreck proof you are wrong.

 

[Ioannis Georgiou]

So ... in order to prove or disprove the switch theory, all we need is a good close up detailed shot of Titanic's main beam number. I have no idea if this number still survives or was destroyed in the sinking.

I am not sure you know what you are talking about.

Since either ship is no longer around this may just be an endless debate.

There is no debate only the people who can not accept the facts are always coming up with the switch fantasy.

 

[Brad Rousse]

I literally ran into one in Prague a few weeks ago.

THAT was something else.

 

[Scott Mills]

Hello. I have been looking into the "Switch" theory for a while. First the "Switch" theory does have some merit. In 1912 in order for White Star to pass the safety inspection after the Olympic's collision with the HMS Hawke this would mean that the slight bend in her keel would have to be repaired in order to correct her lists. As many of you know this is nearly an impossible task. The logical conclusion there is that the Olympic would have never been given her safety papers and thus could no longer ferry passengers.

So the motivation here was not to defraud the Insurer but moreover to pull a fast one on the inspectors and get the Olympic's safety papers signed off thus returning her to ferry service and as such making money for the White Star Line. The true Titanic had already passed her inspection and was certified.

As for the "switch" itself, there had been discussion with the board members of White Star about upgrading Olympic's accommodations to that of the Titanic's or better. So IF they were going to "switch" the two ships, then carpet over Olympic's [Titanic's] tile floors and make the two look alike, then what better time to pull this off. They did after all fit out these ships from top to bottom in under 1 year. So putting a few thousand people and telling them a story makes sense and can easily be done with 24/7 shifts.

Here is where I think all other conspiracies die. I DON'T think they intended on sinking her the night of April 14th. I think that was quite literally the perfect storm of events. The calm water, the mirage effect concealing the iceberg (and the ship herself from the Californian) the speed of the ship, the binoculars being locked up and not in the hands of the lookouts and, of course, the iceberg damage to the ship. Had they intended to actually and intentionally sink her then Bruce Ismay would not have been aboard.

I think the true conspiracy here is that White Star fully intended to operate the "sisters" ferrying passengers and taking the business from their competitors. I think they were trying to emphasize luxury over speed and all the PR of the time supports this.

Now some of you are saying, 'well okay so what's your proof the Olympic and Titanic were switched?'. Simple. Look at the blueprints of the Titanic and the pictures of the "Titanic" on the floor of the Atlantic Ocean. The Titanic was fitted with a wing bridge or a floating bridge. This was adjacent to the bridge on both the port and starboard sides of the ship and was intended to aid the harbor pilots, today's cruise vessels have the same thing. If you look at the pictures of the "Titanic's" wreck, you will notice the floating bridge is flush against the hull. This is on the original Olympic Deck plans and was not implemented until the Titanic was built. You can clearly see this in the picture of the two sisters when they're side by side. So lettering aside, rustacles aside, window spacing aside, one has to point and say 'Hey, where's the wing bridge?' There's not even wreckage indicating that it tore off. It's simply not there. But the hull remains flush where it should be. The conclusion is that it IS the 'Olympic' sitting on the bottom of the Atlantic that sank that cold night in April of 1912.

I think this theory was put to rest by the fact that Titanic's hull/yard number (401) and not Olympic's (400) is all over the wreck.

 

[Cam Houseman]

It does kinda look like its filled with silt. could that mean the Boiler Room is just filled too the brim with sediment?

 

[Ioannis Georgiou]

Very unlikely, look at the forward cargo holds, they are not full with sediment.

 

[Cam Houseman]

good point Ioannis.
Off topic, but is the first letter of your name an I or a lowercase L?

 

[Ioannis Georgiou]

It's "I" even many (mainly for US and UK) write "L".

 

[Cam Houseman]

oh ok, thanks Ioannis. I'll remember to write it with an "I"
again, off topic, I have a friend from Denmark, she's pretty cool. Its so cool to meet people around the world. I met so many here!!

 

[Evieh]

Randomly came across this forum and thread. Then on further Web browsing found the rigging plans for titanic which states the letters are indeed engraved or recessed into the Hull. Just thought would add ...

 

[Steven Christian]

Randomly came across this forum and thread. Then on further Web browsing found the rigging plans for titanic which states the letters are indeed engraved or recessed into the Hull. Just thought would add ...

Welcome to the board Evieh. For the other comments in this thread...The switch theory has been debunked on so many levels that I won't repeat them. It never made sense or has been presented in any way that's remotely plausible. I don't know if it's the worst conspiracy theory about Titanic as there's so many. But it's close to the top. Cheers.