Smith let passengers on the bridge


Scott Holiday

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I'm not sure what you're driving at here but in the real world...as opposed to hypothetical fantasy...such ships tended to be immidiately quaratined if/when they made it to the nearest port. There would be no real question of the passengers "driving the ship" unless some could be found who actually knew how who were not in turn stricken by the disease itself.
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Er, that's exactly what me was bollocking about here, Michael. My hypothetical was this: suppose they (Titanic's skippers) were in the general iceberg smash area vicinity, and all of a sudden Smith & his boyz like Lights, Wilde, Boxhull all come down with the Norfolk nasty, or some germ noise like that. Be it a Virus, scurvy, etc. Too sick to drive or read sextants in other words.

Here's the feature: They're trapped out there in total nowhereland, crew sick like laboratory dogs, and Col. Peuchen & Molly Brown swing by Smith's crib and says:

"Captain, sir, I'm a yachtsmen and me Molly here's worth her salt. If it'd please ye Commander, we'll skipper the tub until you & yer mates feel more spiff. Just give us a quickie primer on the bridge if ye please"

Would Smith be bound to say "Thanks mate but we gotta freeze the tub 'till I'm on the upside," or let them have a go at the helm & hope for the best? At least NYC had doctors galore.

Better Peuchen & Molly et al take their chances in the driver's seat and have a smash into Newfoundland, Greenland or whatever--you know, just run aground on something with the word "_land' as part of it's proper name rather than a bollocking cold dip near the berg.

But me suspect we're selling Col. Peuchen well short anyway. He was likely just as qualified to drive as Hichens and the other apprentices and prolly more so, since yachts have no motor and you gotta keep yer nose to the wind. Peuchen likely could've smelt the berg before they hit, since his yacht probably had no navigation system besides his own advanced-level faculties- sight, sense, smell. Another ole trick was to taste the water every 1/2 hour or so, as the melting bergs would make the salt content lower since freshwater floats. No doubt Peuchen would've known that. Back then rich people spent hours on leisure activities and were often mini-experts in certain areas.

BTW if anyone wants to meet up for the vintage subway tours in December, send me a PM and we can set it up as I live in NYC half the week. At the end of the trip there's a bomb Chinese restaurant on Bayard & Mott Streets called "Hsin Wong" that has homemade wontons with shrimp & pork filling for only $3.75 huge bowl. They work off the whole pig, called "nose to tail" eating since in China food isn't so plentiful. It's in Chinatown proper.

cheers,
scotty
 

Bob Godfrey

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That could only work if the interpreter steward was still on his feet. But even if fit and well he might be having problems. Certainly I am. The Babelfisn site doesn't handle Scottese.

Do yourself a favour, Scotto, and next time you do the subway tour leave the train driving to the professionals. Remember what happened last time.

208912.jpg
 

Jason D. Tiller

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quote:

They're trapped out there in total nowhereland, crew sick like laboratory dogs, and Col. Peuchen & Molly Brown swing by Smith's crib and says:

"Captain, sir, I'm a yachtsmen and me Molly here's worth her salt. If it'd please ye Commander, we'll skipper the tub until you & yer mates feel more spiff. Just give us a quickie primer on the bridge if ye please"

This would have never happened. Arthur Peuchen had more nautical sense than you can throw a stick at, to realize that the bridge was completely off limits to passengers. Further more, Peuchen never spoke anything like that.

quote:

Better Peuchen & Molly et al take their chances in the driver's seat and have a smash into Newfoundland, Greenland or whatever--you know, just run aground on something with the word "_land' as part of it's proper name rather than a bollocking cold dip near the berg.

What?

quote:

He was likely just as qualified to drive as Hichens and the other apprentices and prolly more so, since yachts have no motor and you gotta keep yer nose to the wind.

And you can speculate on this due to...oh that's right, you have absolutely zero evidence to back up your "likely" theories. There is no comparison between commanding a yacht and being the captain of a 46,328 ton ocean liner on the North Atlantic. Any person with some nautical sense would know that.

quote:

Peuchen likely could've smelt the berg before they hit

Nothing of the kind is mentioned in his testimony. Only that there was a change in temperature.​
 

Adam Went

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Apr 28, 2003
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Michael:

Precisely, I can't support it with any known evidence, but again, I believe that on the balance of probability and common sense, it's perfectly plausible.

The flip side of what you've said there, Michael, is that there's no known evidence which directly states that no children (or passengers in general for that matter) were allowed on the of the Titanic in any way, shape or form throughout the voyage.

Now you preach about backing up claims with evidence, but you're preaching to the converted - if there's no evidence to say they were on the bridge, but then there's no evidence to say that they weren't on the bridge either, what's to say which is the correct answer?

Only your steadfast belief that everybody must stick to the "rules", Michael, which we've already established...they don't.

"The official record you speak to backed up the existance of this animal when there was credible evidence to support it. Revising the record in light of what tangible emperical evidence is what good science does."

Would you mind repeating that in a manner which actually makes some sort of sense?

"And where did I say that it wasn't? You're contriving a strawman, Adam."

The point is that if they were prepared to break the rules in relation to the ice, a very serious offence indeed, then it lends credibility to the theory that they would have broken the rules for a much more minor offence, i.e. allowing a curious young child onto the bridge.

"And I'd suggest you learn something about proper historical and scientific methodology before you make the mistake of talking down to anybody on this forum, sir."

Talking down? Haha.....I try my best not to talk down to anybody, Michael, and I assure you that if I wanted to, you would have run crying to your mother a considerable time ago. But regardless of who the poster is, if they need to be set straight, then so it should be done. Clearly, i'm no Sir. ;-)

Cheers,
Adam.
 

Scott Holiday

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And you can speculate on this due to...oh that's right, you have absolutely zero evidence to back up your "likely" theories. There is no comparison between commanding a yacht and being the captain of a 46,328 ton ocean liner on the North Atlantic. Any person with some nautical sense would know that.
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As me said a few slices back, I have a NJ Boat Operator License, and per such credentials have a gear amount of nautical training as compared to a lay-geek. Take a gander at what us Garden State mariners have to go thru just to skipper a 14 feet Bass Tracker- it's prolly more intense than captain's certificate was for WSL!

Here's the deal: Steering this tub was no biggie. Just wait for sunset and steer due West into said sun, and before long you'll smack into somewhere in N. America no doubt. That's a geographical certainty, and what me was taught if ever get lost in the Hudson Canyon or somewhere outta site of Snooki and the 'NJ Shore" crowd. Works every time on the old Chris Craft.

Some old salts on here are trying to make this into a major biggie when in fact nothing much is really there. Head due West, don't smack a Berg, and we all end up somewhere other than England no worse for the wear. That's about it.

Hell, we all like to feel "important.' For example, I could rap all day about "res ipsa loquitir" and legal noise, but fact is sometimes perps get away with murder. Just like fact is that Peuchen was likely every bit the seaman that Smith & Lights were and could've done a bang-up job no worries in his own right. So what if Smith & Lights crammed for a few sailor "exams"- they proved their incompetnece beyond all doubt at 2:20 am on 4-15-12. It'd be pretty tough to do worse.

You ole sailors have to learn not to get so cheezed when us landlubbers posit fresh ideas and such. As a lawyer my clients tell me all sorts of crazy strategies and such all day long (I advertise on TV), but I just nod and take it in stride. Fact is that sometimes these clowns see things I'd never have thought of, because they aren't as invested in the "rules" as I am.

Just sayin'

scotty
 

Jason D. Tiller

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quote:

As me said a few slices back, I have a NJ Boat Operator License, and per such credentials have a gear amount of nautical training as compared to a lay-geek.

Good for you, so then you should have some knowledge that the two are very different, but where's the evidence to support your claims? Right, you have none.

quote:

Steering this tub was no biggie.

Ohhh....I think people like Jim Currie, David Brown and Mike Standart would beg to differ.

quote:

Peuchen was likely every bit the seaman that Smith & Lights were and could've done a bang-up job no worries in his own right.

Since Peuchen had no formal training in handling ships and was instead a yachtsman, we will never know. It is pointless to speculate.

quote:

You ole sailors have to learn not to get so cheezed when us landlubbers posit fresh ideas and such.

And you, sir, need to provide facts to support your theories, which you haven't done once in this thread. Otherwise, you can't expect any of us to take you seriously.​
 

Scott Holiday

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Jason, rule #1 when steering vintage tubs is TTT: Tiller Towards Trouble.

It's very counter-intuitive me adamits, re: ordering "hard a starboard" when you wanna swing a left. I've been told by me jooley (who was crew captain at McGill U. in Canada) that I'm one of the rare cats who have a natural "knack" for driving boats. Fact is I just was born with good 3-D sense, and ask anyone how I can swing em around on a dime. It's ballzy jazz too since me can't swim a lick.

So I fail to see how Titanic was much different, really. You skippers love to get all technical on us, but fact is a boat is easier to drive than a car. Just a rudder and a wheel, at the end of the day. Quit making mountains outta moledomes. Hell, Smith quit high school at age 12, so it's not like these guys were akin to modern day astronauts as you and Michael make it seem.

Even the geezer in ANTR says "You're not God, Mister Lightoller.'

But on here it seems they think he is.
 

Mark Baber

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As a lawyer my clients tell me all sorts of crazy strategies and such all day long (I advertise on TV), but I just nod and take it in stride. Fact is that sometimes these clowns ...

Are you at all concerned that some of your clients might see this message referring to them as "clowns" and be somewhat put off by that?
 

Jason D. Tiller

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quote:

Quit making mountains outta moledomes.

I'm doing no such thing, Scott. Only thing I am doing is challenging your posts. That's what happens when you post in a public forum; your posts can be taken to task and ripped apart.

quote:

so it's not like these guys were akin to modern day astronauts as you and Michael make it seem.

Again, I'm only speaking for myself, but I am doing nothing of the kind and I don't believe Mike is either. Strawman.​
 
Dec 2, 2000
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Easley South Carolina
>>Precisely, I can't support it with any known evidence,<<

And that's where this discussion between us ends as far as I'm concerned Adam. You're right when you say that you can't support it with evidence and appeals to so-called common sense don't get you there when trying to establish something as a fact.

Wanna speculate?

Fine. I don't have a problem with that so long as one differentiates between the two.

Wanna call it a fact?

Better have the evidence to back it up.

>>Here's the deal: Steering this tub was no biggie.<<

Steering Titanic, or any other large vessel was a biggie and with much graver consequences if one gets it wrong. Which fact the officers of the Titanic learned the hard way.

>>You ole sailors have to learn not to get so cheezed when us landlubbers posit fresh ideas and such.<<

Unfortunately, you're ideas aren't really very fresh and go against the grain of the verifiable historical realities. Vistors to the bridge in port were one thing but it's a fact that it was forbidden under the company rules while underway. If they broke the rules (Sure, it's possible) they did so at the risk of censure at best and losing their posts in the worst case.

I don't have a problem with those who think outside of the conventional box. Captain Jim, Captain Dave, Senan Molony do it all the time. Their propositions are not uncontroversial and the arguements get lively. Whether or not any of these people are right or wrong is debatable and debated.

The key however is that their ideas are firmly rooted in the evidence.

Surely, as a lawyer, you have to understand why that matters.
 
Jan 28, 2003
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How I admire "Scott's" last post. The language grows ever more extravagant and absurd. I can't be bothered to quote it here, but just go back up about four posts ... this is not a real person.

It's ballzy jazz too since me can't swim a lick.

Too funny for words.
But I'm kinda tired, now. No blow, confederates.
 

Bob Godfrey

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Enough already (as old Izzy used to say). Scott, let's get down to business. You're good and you know it. You got the walk and you got the talk, but this ain't gonna pay for the elocution lessons. As we've seen you don't know squat about the value of a dollar, whereas I do. So here's the deal. Titanic - the Street Version. You write and I produce. With a small role for me Monica, just to keep her sweet. The real money will be for thee and me. You could buy your own subway. At least think about it.
 

Jim Currie

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As you say Bob 'enough already' I conclude my participation for the moment, by dedicating the following to Captain Smith. These were written by a 'Dude' who knew some sh.. about the english language. I'm perfectly sure Willie S. won't mind!:

"I have ventured,
Like little wanton boys that swim on bladders,
This many summers, in a sea of glory,
But far beyond my depth;my high-blown pride
At length broke under me, and now has left me ,
Weary and old with service, to the mercy of a wide stream, that must for ever hide me."

HenryV111..act3.

Perhaps Scott might derive a little comfort from these lines?

JC
 

Scott Holiday

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Actually it's probably the ripest of time to put together a new Titanic hip-hop type style play off Broadway as 100th anniversary is next year.

Make the boat/set a gangster-type hoopty with neon lights, gold bling everywhere, hydraulics to hop 'er up & down, bass tubes galore so the tub really thumps. Let's "Pimp my Titanic"

Have Bride & Phillips double as DJ's and scratch records in the Marconi room. When they site the berg, these boyz blast the bass tubes and disintegrate the berg with sound waves.

BTW I'd love to have my own mini-subway in my house like Ricky Schroder did on "Silver Spoons."
 
Jan 28, 2003
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Ooohh yes, now this I like. Can EJ and I jam on a revised version of Scenes from an Italian Restaurant in the Cafe Parisien? It's not hip-hop, but it'll certainly drown out the sound of three bells.
 

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