Smither/Norton


Paul Hutchins

Member
Apr 15, 2002
12
0
131
Hi
According to my family my great uncle Harry Smither, a fireman, was not suppose to be on the Titanic, but on the sister ship Olympia. It seems one of the firemen on the Titanic was takem ill and Harry took his place......

i have a collegue at work who said that her grand father, Mr Norton, was due to sail on the Titanic as a fireman in the engine room, but due to illnes was unable to under take the trip..

Does anyone one know of any connection??

Paul
 

Bob Godfrey

Member
Nov 22, 2002
6,043
107
333
UK
Hallo, Paul. Most of the firemen were signed on for the Titanic on 6 April, several days before the ship sailed. Harry Smither's signature appears with the others on that date, so he wasn't a late replacement for somebody else.
 

Shelleywatts

Member
May 23, 2021
4
0
1
Northumberland
Hi
According to my family my great uncle Harry Smither, a fireman, was not suppose to be on the Titanic, but on the sister ship Olympia. It seems one of the firemen on the Titanic was takem ill and Harry took his place......

i have a collegue at work who said that her grand father, Mr Norton, was due to sail on the Titanic as a fireman in the engine room, but due to illnes was unable to under take the trip..

Does anyone one know of any connection??

Paul

Daisy farmer was my great grandmother she went on to marry for a third time and had a total of 13 children.
 

Arun Vajpey

Member
Jul 8, 1999
2,594
983
388
65
Ummm...who's Daisy Farmer?
According to ET, she was Harry Smither's wife

But according to Daisy Farmer's own genealogy, she died herself in 1917 aged 23 years. Rather difficult to have 13 children within that time, I would have thought.


According to her records, she had one daughter named Louisa from Harry Smither, remarried a Walter Whitlock after Harry died on the Titanic, but herself passed away in 1917.

1917 as the year of death tallies in all main genealogical sites for Daisy Farmer. But is there a remote possibility that she actually died in 1971 and someone made a mistake? If so, Shelly Watts' report could be correct.
 
Last edited:

Shelleywatts

Member
May 23, 2021
4
0
1
Northumberland
According to ET, she was Harry Smither's wife

But according to Daisy Farmer's own genealogy, she died herself in 1917 aged 23 years. Rather difficult to have 13 children within that time, I would have thought.


According to her records, she had one daughter named Louisa from Harry Smither, remarried a Walter Whitlock after Harry died on the Titanic, but herself passed away in 1917.

1917 as the year of death tallies in all main genealogical sites for Daisy Farmer. But is there a remote possibility that she actually died in 1971 and someone made a mistake? If so, Shelly Watts' report could be correct.
My Mams been looking into her family tree it does say on hear that she died 1917. My mam has found the same daisy farmer that married Smithers, Whitlock and then Wilson which was my grandmothers mother. She was told he had died on a ship but wasn’t sure which one so started looking into it.
 

Shelleywatts

Member
May 23, 2021
4
0
1
Northumberland
My Mams been looking into her family tree it does say on hear that she died 1917. My mam has found the same daisy farmer that married Smithers, Whitlock and then Wilson which was my grandmothers mother. She was told he had died on a ship but wasn’t sure which one so started looking into it.
I will check but I think My mam said Louisa had one son and the records show someone from their side had been looking into my grandmother. Louisa would of been her half sister.
 

Arun Vajpey

Member
Jul 8, 1999
2,594
983
388
65
My Mams been looking into her family tree it does say on hear that she died 1917. My mam has found the same daisy farmer that married Smithers, Whitlock and then Wilson which was my grandmothers mother.

I checked as much as I could and so far came up with the following.
  • Harry James Smither was married to Daisy Farmer but I could not find a record of the date of their wedding.
  • Their daughter, Lousia Smither, was born in 1911.
  • Harry Smither, of course, was a fireman on board the Titanic and sadly died in the disaster on 15th April 1912.
  • His widow Daisy was remarried in 1914 to Walter Whitlock. No mention of any children from that union.
  • I could not find a record of Walter Whitlock's year of death.
  • I was unable to find any record of a third husband named Wilson or any other surname.
  • All genealogical records that I searched indicate that Daisy Farmer-Smither-Whitlock passed away in 1917 aged 23 years. No cause of death listed.

But I have seen people who never were on the Titanic listed or claimed as victims (eg Marius Petersen {cancelled passage}, Alan McRae) or as survivors (Walter Belford, Vera Edwards-Hanson etc) and so theoretically an error could have been made. Could you check with your mother or an older relative if any of them recall Daisy? If, for example, she actually died in 1971 rather than 1917, then someone alive today might remember her (as the former wife of a Titanic victim)
 

Shelleywatts

Member
May 23, 2021
4
0
1
Northumberland
I checked as much as I could and so far came up with the following.
  • Harry James Smither was married to Daisy Farmer but I could not find a record of the date of their wedding.
  • Their daughter, Lousia Smither, was born in 1911.
  • Harry Smither, of course, was a fireman on board the Titanic and sadly died in the disaster on 15th April 1912.
  • His widow Daisy was remarried in 1914 to Walter Whitlock. No mention of any children from that union.
  • I could not find a record of Walter Whitlock's year of death.
  • I was unable to find any record of a third husband named Wilson or any other surname.
  • All genealogical records that I searched indicate that Daisy Farmer-Smither-Whitlock passed away in 1917 aged 23 years. No cause of death listed.

But I have seen people who never were on the Titanic listed or claimed as victims (eg Marius Petersen {cancelled passage}, Alan McRae) or as survivors (Walter Belford, Vera Edwards-Hanson etc) and so theoretically an error could have been made. Could you check with your mother or an older relative if any of them recall Daisy? If, for example, she actually died in 1971 rather than 1917, then someone alive today might remember her (as the former wife of a Titanic victim)

according to my great grandmother daisy farmer as told through the family. had 1 child (Dolly) as a result of rape before she met Smithers (also seen on census). She then married Smithers and had Louisa (have marriage certificate) Smithers died on the titanic. She then married Whitlock and had 3 more children (found this marriage certificate also) then she married Wilson and had further children including my grandmother. This daisy died in 1966 my mother can remember the story told from her. When researching this she found the Louisa Smithers Who’s dad died on the titanic and she or her family had found the same research and was trying to find other children of daisy farmer. She had my grandmother and siblings as her half siblings. Although obviously I can’t be 100% sure it does seem extremely coincidental.
 

Arun Vajpey

Member
Jul 8, 1999
2,594
983
388
65
This daisy died in 1966 my mother can remember the story told from her. When researching this she found the Louisa Smithers Who’s dad died on the titanic and she or her family had found the same research and was trying to find other children of daisy farmer. She had my grandmother and siblings as her half siblings. Although obviously I can’t be 100% sure it does seem extremely coincidental.
Harry Smither's wife was certainly Daisy Farmer and in 1911 they had Louisa Smither between them. I assume that Daisy took Louisa with her when she married Walter Whitlock in 1914. According to what I have found (which may be incomplete or inaccurate), Daisy herself died in 1917, at which time Louisa Smither would have been around 6 years old.

The family story raises a few questions and also suggests a few possibilities.

  • What happened to Dolly Farmer?
  • If Daisy Farmer-Whitlock really died in 1917 as all the genealogy records show, was her second husband Walter Whitlock still alive then? (very likely).
  • I know it is extremely coincidental, but if then Walter Whitlock continued to care for little Louisa after his wife Daisy died and then remarried another woman named Daisy, then the latter could have been mixed up with the original.
  • Another possibility is that it might have been Daisy Farmer's second husband Walter Whitlock who died in 1917 and not Daisy herself. Remember that the First World War was raging at the time and some confusion is not unlikely. If so, it would explain everything that you have been told so far, including a third husband named Wilson and more children.
Anyway, it is an interesting story and if you and your family do not mind, please post any further details as they come to light.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Similar threads