Smith's Medals

[Ernie Luck]

Inger

Yes, I liked the RNR decoration too. I have asked my medal dealer to look out for a Miniature George V issue like Lowe's. You mentioned he had other medals, three in total; do you know what they were or have I misunderstood?

I meant in my last post to mention the latin inscription on the transport medal, so I will correct that omission now. The obverse with the King's head:- EDWARDVS V11 REX ET IMPERATOR. On the reverse:-OB PATRIAM MILITIBUS PER MARKE TRANSVECTI ADJUTUM (For services rendered in transporting troops by sea)

You mentioned Lowe wearing just a medal ribbon and I noticed Capt. Smith doing just the same in the photo of him in his white summer attire. This photo appears on the front of Gary Cooper's book and I think I can just make out the shadow of the blue lines on the red background of the Transport medal ribbon. I suspect I risk provoking a response that it looks like the green ribbon of the RD.

We have spoken of the use of miniatures on dress uniform but it is also a common practice for medal ribbon bars to be worn on day-to-day uniform and for the wearing of medals to be reserved for ceremonial occasions. With few exceptions the medal ribbon colours are unique to each medal and it is possible therefore to determine the award from just the medal ribbon.

Regards Ernie

 

[Donald J A Smith]

A "dark green" ribbon would indicate 'The Order of the Indian Empire' and no other. Ernie is - I believe - quite right to identify the ribbon as red (with thin stripes of blue well within its edges) as that of the Sea Transport Medal which, in 1903, was awarded to 'Captain Edward John Smith RNR In Command' - and which he wore.

 

[Ernie Luck]

Donald

Is that so? I don't think "The Order of the Indian Empire" is in my Medal bible. It does state however, that the RD medal ribbon is a "plain green ribbon", white edges being added from 1941, onwards.

Did you notice I had posted a photo of the medal and medal ribbon above. The colour looks quite a dark green

Regards, Ernie

 

[Donald J A Smith]

Ernie: Hugely awkward attempt on my part to agree entirely with your research, and praise it. And also after seeing the excellent photos you shared with us! (I referred - of the 2 - only to the Transport Medal.) There'll probably be a 'Bible' reference to the Order - under 'Star of India' - but Thistle is, I believe, dark green, and 'junior' of the Star of India was a solid colour also; but likely dark blue. [Despite one British militaria dealer quoting it as 'dark green'.] Anyway, Orders are beside the point! Do you think it possible EJ had miniatures
of his medals? Surely Eleanor would have presented them in 1913 along with his dress sword. Thanks! Don

 

[Inger Sheil]

From memory, Ernie, Lowe was awarded the 1914-15 Star and the Victory Medal 1914-19 (but would have to check these are correct identifications - particularly on the former - as that's what I've been told they are).

I'm flat out getting ready to head off on vacation, but will try and get some of those images for you when I get back.

 

[Ernie Luck]

Thanks Inger

If he received the 14-15 Star, he would also have received the British War medal and the Victory medal, making a trio. No hurry whatsoever for the information. Have a good vacation.

Regards, Ernie

 

[Ernie Luck]

Donald

Thanks for your kind comments. I thought you were complimenting my research.

I did find an entry, " The Most Eminent Order of the Indian Empire" which I believe is the one you were referring to. This medal had three categories:- Knights Grand Commanders;Knights Commanders and Companions. The ribbon colour for all three is described as 'imperial purple', in different widths according to the award.

It is possible that EJ had miniature medals, although in all the photo's I have seen he was wearing the full size ones. The miniatures being purchased rather than issued would not have been named. They were often scaled down versions made by the same manufacturers who made the full size medals for the government. My full size RD was made, or supplied, by Garrard and Co Ltd London - I have the original box of issue. The early miniatures that I have seen are really nice.

Thanks again, Regards Ernie

 

[Inger Sheil]

Hallo Ernie! Ignore previous comment - I've grabbed the photos, and it's apparent that the trio are the RD, the 1914 - 1918 War Medal, and the Victory medal.

Boarding the plane in about three hours - In a couple of days I'll be out there with the Osprey Reef sharks!

 

[Ernie Luck]

Thanks for the information Inger. Watch out for the teeth of them sharks.

 

[Ernie Luck]

Shane

You were right when you said in your earlier post that in the Cameron 1997 film, Captain Smith was wearing the wrong colour ribbons. I suspect it was because the green colour of the RD would not have looked as impressive on his evening attire. Pity they did not get it right although it's not all that important in the scheme of things.

There is a photo of him wearing his medals on the Titanic, so as you indicated, there is not much doubt where they are now.

Regards Ernie

 

[[email protected]]

He had two medals, neither of which looks like any standard U.S. type medal, one of which was the Transport Medal w/S. Africa clasp.
Anyone have access to duplicates, or know of any source for such, other than expensive custom ordering?

Mike,
If you are still interested this many years hence, I can help. The Transport Medal with South Africa clasp is readily available as a reproduction. I also recently had the LSGC medal custom made at a really affordable cost (About $46.00). I found a medal retailer in the UK who BORROWED an actual one, made a mould, and then custom cast one for me. Email me at [email protected] and I will send you all the source info and detailed photographs of the ones I wear on my WSL uniform.

Dave (Mr. Titanic) Tuttle

 

[Stanley C Jenkins]

It is interesting to note that, in the photographs that appear in Frankie McElroy's biography of Chief Purser Hugh McElroy, the purser appears to be wearing the ribbon of his Transport Medal, whereas Captain Smith habitually wore the complete medals - this must have been a personal quirk, as medals (as opposed to the ribbons) are usually worn only on specific occasions.