Some questions on the third class

I recall reading that a girl in 3rd class snuck up to 1st class during the voyage and went unnoticed as she roamed around for a whole day. Does anyone remember who this girl was?

I've also heard that a group of children from 3rd class snuck into the cargo hold/boiler room area of the ship. Can anyone provide me with further info on this?

Also, on a somewhat unrelated note, does anyone have an idea as to how Fahim Leeni got up to the boat deck so early in the sinking that he managed to board Lifeboat 6, one of the first boats to leave?

I'm also curious if anyone knows who it was who said that Gurshon Cohen jumped into Lifeboat 12.

Finally, does anyone have an opinion on who the third man who jumped from the stern with Edward Dorking and Patrick O'Keefe was? I have heard that it was Victor Sunderland, but his own account appears to contradict this notion.
Okay, I figured out who the girl I was thinking of was: Hilda Hellstrom.

The boys I was thinking of were Frankie Goldsmith, the Goodwin boys, the Rice boys and the Van Billiard boys. I see I found this on Frankie Goldsmith's wikipedia page. Apparently their source is the book "Inside the Titanic." I don't own the book but I wonder how reliable it is? Apparently it's intended for a younger audience, so perhaps the author just made the story up for entertainment.

I suppose Fahim Leeni may have just jolted up to the boat deck after the collision, but it still seems suspicious to me. Perhaps he was up to more than he let on in his account. I wonder how he injured his arm?

Allan Wolf

Regarding the names of "Frankie's Gang," as they appear in Wikipedia: They are listed as William Johnston, Willie Coutts, Harold Goodwin, James and Walter van Billiard, and Albert and George Rice. The source is "Inside the Tiitanic," but I've gone over every page of it and I can't find the names listed there. I'm wondering if the names are listed in the THS Goldsmith book "Echoes in the Night" and just referenced incorrectly by Wikipedia. Unfortunately I don't have a copy of "Echoes in the Night." Perhaps someone who has one can verify whether or not it lists the boys' names, and if so, what the names are. I was guessing that two would be Willie Coutts and Harold Goodwin since they were the third class and similar age.
>>I'm wondering if the names are listed in the THS Goldsmith book "Echoes in the Night" and just referenced incorrectly by Wikipedia.<<

If it is, that wouldn't be a first. Wikipedia can be very useful, but you have to be just as careful with it.
The tragedy of the Titanic had a terrible interference on all the victims their families and even the whole world. Public interest including
official institutions and journalists around the world was immense and I believe that
There are testimonies and writings in newspapers, books where the surviving passengers directly gave interviews to journalists and writers and their biographies. It was credible information that they are likely to be true, but they are hard to get but not impossible. All other second-hand writing the regular half-truths and sometimes incorrect information in circulation.
I do not believe absolutely no Wikipedia or the Encyclopedia even if no forums
evidence in the form of pictures or by the official signature of any information
of course including the validity of information sources. And ET has a lot of false information. I own microfilm newspaper editions from 1912
where the one surviving passenger interview and his story of the rescue is quite otherwise in relation to the biography that was presented here on ET.
Accurate and good information have always had a price and everything is revealed as
arbitrary information is cheap and available.
Thank you.
You may want to look at our website and the story of the Addergoole Fourteen:

Do you have a copy of the Record Herald, Chicago, April 28 1912? I am looking for an article in that headed: " The Steamer They Started On. Just the Story of How Fifteen Girls and Boys Set Out From Ireland for Chicago Three Weeks Ago and How Two of Them Arrived."

There is the text of a letter in it written a few weeks before Titanic sailed by one of our victims, saying that she was travelling on Titanic with the others from Addergoole. She wrote to her sister Ellie McHugh in Chicago.

Thank you
Mick Molloy

Jason D. Tiller


And ET has a lot of false information.

If you notice inaccurate information in the biographies, then you need to contact the webmaster, Phil Hind to have it corrected. Click here to send an e-mail to him.

Phil has strived and done his best to make ET the most accurate, in depth and up to date resource on the Titanic, but mistakes do and will happen.​
Hi Mick,
Unfortunately I do not have a copy of the note, but try to start at this address:
If you fail to find the required text, try using this forum to come up
a man named George Behe.
Surely we'll FIND it somewhere.
I visited the Mayo Titanic com. An interesting story about the fate of these people.
It is very similar to the fate of my great-grandfather who brought along 16 people from his village, and only he survived. Nikola LULIĆ THIRD CLASS PASSENGER.
But a few days we will hear again and continue the story.
Direct mail
Thank you for that information. Still could not find the article though. I have a very poor paper copy of it, some of which I cannot decipher because of the poor definition.

I read each of the 17 stories, including your great grandfather's. I see, like four of our group, that he had been to USA before. It was an enormous loss for that locality. I had to collect the biographies together, using the ticket agent to search on which is a pity, as no one reading the individual articles would know that there were 16 other companions in steerage. Why don't you consider writing a short article on ET bringing the 17 passengers together?

John Kelly, a descendant relative of one of the Addergoole Fourteen has recently done this on ET for our group: "Titanic Passengers from County Mayo Ireland and their Relationships".

Thanks for your help anyway.

I have some questions that I would love some help on.
My Great grandfather and his 3 sons were suposed to be on the Titanic, their name was Parker and the youngest boy name was Walter. I was told they gave or traded their tickets to a family with a small baby. As we know their are not many infants on the ship. The Dean family was supposed to sail on another ship. Does anyone know the ship? and could tickets have been traded. I would truly like to know if the story is true and if thier is any evidence to what I was told.

Thanks, Candi
The tickets couldn't be traded, in spite of the movies. Each ticket, which was around A4 size, had a removable strip along one edge on which was written the names of the passengers covered by the ticket.
Ok, If the tickets couldn't be traded.
Were there any available spaces left on the ship.
Does anyone know if the Dean family got tickets at the last minute.
My Grandfather was quite young and didn't rember much other than a crying baby. As this family went on the Titanic and they didn't.

Thanks for the help.